Lauren: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Publish & Prosper, where I am once again joined by Chelsea. Thanks for coming back again.

Chelsea: And thank you for having me.

Lauren: It's, it's always going to be a delight and an adventure because we are once again trying something new here.

Chelsea: Lauren is imprisoned.

Lauren: You know, it is. I mean, I did say in the last episode that we did that I missed my, windowless recording studio with the door, and I do still miss that one, but, this one is is like a six by six square. I wish it was a little bigger.

Chelsea: Yeah, yeah. No, it looks it looks super cozy, for sure.

Lauren: It is. It is definitely cozy. I think it also might be a thousand degrees in here, but that's...

Chelsea: Well, I know, but, you know, we won't be able to tell because you're wearing, we're both wearing, our –

Lauren: Nope, wrong side.

Chelsea: – handy dandy Lulu sweatshirt. So you can sweat all you want, and we will not be able to tell because it's black, so.

Lauren: Absolutely. No, no, this is, this is a perfect, perfect opportunity to match as we sit here and talk about the value of community and the –

Chelsea: Yes.

Lauren: – difference between audiences and communities, and why something as simple as a matching sweatshirt can be something that unites us all.

Chelsea: Yeah, we didn't plan this.

Lauren: No we, we absolutely didn’t.

Chelsea: Funnily enough. Look at us

Lauren: Look at us.

Chelsea: communing already.

Lauren: Wow, wow. We've gone straight to the community. Zero audience required. Actually, I'm pretty sure we've been each other's audience for like seven years worth of content, eight years worth of content, at this point. So.

Chelsea: It’s true.

Lauren: Yeah.

[2:11] – Episode Topic Intro

Lauren: But, I do think that community is something that has come up a lot in a lot of the different episodes that that we've done lately, including the one that you and I just did together. But also in some of the ones that Matt and I have done recently. And, you know, we've kind of talked about the, the importance of building an audience of true fans and people that are loyal fans of not just one or two of your products, but of you, your brand, hopefully all of your books, whatever else goes along with it. And, you know, kind of the, the understanding why that is so important and why it's more important probably now than it has been in the past.

Chelsea: Yeah, I mean. Community, I think, is always part of the conversation when you're trying to build a business. Especially these days, because brands are so visible and there are so many ways to connect with your audience. And so it is really important. I mean, that fandom that we always talk about, that is sort of the sweet spot that all authors, you know, all brands want to create a fandom. Because at the end of the day, you want your, your business, your brand to become a place where people feel like they belong and they can connect with others through, you know, interacting with the content that you create. And so if you can have that, if you can have a space where people can come and share their ideas or their values or their interests, then that's a really great foundation for building something that is sustainable and that you can come back to again and again and continue to build on, I think.

Lauren: Yeah. I think the the really, really important thing that you just said in there, that is kind of the giveaway for the whole episode is, share. When you said a space where they can come and share. And I think that is, you know, was kind of one of the main things that we wanted to kind of highlight and talk about in this episode, because we've been using audience and community a little bit interchangeably lately. And, and I want to make it very clear for this and other episodes that they're not. They're, they're not the same thing. An audience can be a community, and a community can be an audience. But the, the, to me, the big difference between them is that the community space is a space where people are sharing whatever. Whether it's sharing fandom, sharing stories and insights, sharing progress, sharing, you know, just engaging with each other. Whereas an audience tends to be a little bit more of a one way street.

Chelsea: Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's a great definition. And I think, that the audience is basically who you're talking to. So the audience, the way I would think about it, is kind of the very top of the funnel. The people who are hearing your messaging, but perhaps not engaging with it. And then your community becomes people who are investing in, one way or another. In your product, in your service, in your brand, in your, you know, events, in whatever you're doing.

[5:23] – Recognizing Organic Opportunities for Community

Chelsea: I know that we were going to veer into this eventually, but I'll go ahead and get into story time if that, if you'll allow it.

Lauren: Oh, please.

Chelsea: Okay. Because at Lulu, you know, we, we tried to launch a community. I was in charge of launching a community. It failed. Spoiler alert. But the reason that I think it did was because we didn't make that transition from audience to community.

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: And Joe Pulizzi, friend of the show, he put out a really good article about this, about building community. And when you are building a community, it's not like a build it and they will come type thing. It's like, give them a reason to be there. And so when you think about building the community, like you said, like are you creating a place for people to share? Are you creating a place for people to exchange ideas, or are you creating a physical space where people meet up and do something? Are creating a place like we talked about the other week, about having a place where people show up and work on something together.

Lauren: Yup.

Chelsea: Where you're doing a live stream or something like that. Like, have a reason for them to show up and engage, and then you can build the community from there. And so I feel that one of the reasons that we weren't as successful as we wanted to be with our initiative and starting a community was we kind of put the cart before the horse a little bit, where we thought we'll build a community and people will come, but really, you kind of want to reverse engineer that. Like give people a reason to get together, and then over time, the community will kind of build itself on this. And you just sort of foster it, I think.

Lauren: Yeah. And I think that was hard for us to see at the time. Just because, you know, one, not having a lot of experience with doing something like that. And two just, you know, hindsight's always 20/20, and especially like after a few years of being able to look back on it. But I think, I think that makes a lot of sense. You can't force community to happen. You have to like, you can foster it, and hope that it grows and give it a space to grow. But like, there's still has to be something that like, in the same way that any successful product or content channel does, like it is serving a purpose and it is providing like a need or it's, it's solving a problem for people.

Chelsea: Yeah, absolutely.

Lauren: And, you know, maybe a different problem than your content is, but.

Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah, I mean.

Lauren: Still something.

Chelsea: And yeah, and community of course is just so valuable. And like, and we talk about obviously niche, niche, whatever, but you want to get down into the community that you can create, or who are you really talking to, and what is, like, the content that you're creating or the brand that you have? Like what, what is bringing people together from that? Why are people coming to you? And can you sort of extrapolate into something that they can bond together over, or that you can create a bigger space to talk about that? What happens right before they engage with your content? What happens right after? And is there a space where you can build on that? Of course, if you're an author, then sometimes the community comes out of your books that you've written, the worlds that you've built, and the experiences that you're sharing through the book. And people just love that, and they want to continue the story on their own, or they want to talk about it on their own. Like, you know, I've just finished watching, watching Succession, and before that Mad Men, and – because I have great taste, and so. But after every single series ends, I like to go to Reddit to see what other people thought about that, about the show, about how it ended, you know, what things did I miss? Or what did... you know, maybe I think one thing and somebody else thought something else. So in thinking about like your, your content and what space can you create where people are going to be talking about either the content you're creating or the content that you're talking about or, again, your brand or your product. And I think it's sort of difficult, you know, when you are a brand and you are selling a product, to create community organically, so it takes a bit more work. But I think it all goes back to like, what problem are you solving and what do people need to connect with each other on? And then can you create a space for them to do that?

Lauren: It is something that I think that more often than not, runs parallel to whatever your actual like, branded content is. Like, I think it's not necessarily something that you would think of as like, oh, people are coming directly to my community space to talk about me and my books, or me and my blog that I post about whatever on. Watching TV shows from a decade ago. I haven't watched either of those shows, so absolutely no shade.

Chelsea: Sounded like there actually was a little bit of shade there, but I'll allow it.

Lauren: It's fine. I was going to make a Lost reference and then I realized that was even longer. So it's fine.

Chelsea: Go on.

Lauren: It's fine. But you know, maybe, maybe people are not coming to your community space or even to your channels in general to talk about your book, but because they're fans of you, they came to talk about other books that are like that one. Or because they're fans of you, they came to see what you were doing and then while they were there, they saw you talking about like, hey, I really loved this book that I just read by this author. If you're a fan of my books, I think you would really love her stuff. Like, she writes XYZ, it's so cool. And then all of a sudden people are in there being like, oh I love that author. Or oh, if you liked her, you should check out this one. And that's how community grows. And it's not necessarily that they're in there talking specifically about you and your content, but it is still parallel, tangential, and or otherwise related to it.

Chelsea: Yeah, yeah. And then I mean, I think that you kind of get the goodwill of starting that space or having, you know, creating that kind of conduit. Or, or being that conduit where people can connect. And I mean, so yeah, if you're not seeing a clear direction where you're creating something and you're like, well, I don't really know what the community around this would look like. Well then you as an individual and a person can, can also kind of infuse your own interest and ideas into it. Or the books that you like to read. Or, I mean, maybe you do have a brand that is really professional and not really where... you know, maybe you're a consultant for social media or something like that. Maybe that's what you do. And maybe there's not a lot of room for you to have, create a community around that. But maybe you do start something where you say let's talk about, like, what really works on social media and what hasn't. And let's kind of go through, like, the things that we're seeing or trends or, you know, all – And the community can kind of spin up a whole other sort of content idea machine for you, because you kind of start to see what people are talking about. You get to know other people in the space that are really interested in it. And then these can be, you know, a network of people that you're able to work with. You know, outside of the community as well. So, yeah, I think that that's true. It's like, if you aren't seeing a direct path about your content that's like, yeah I write manuals for how to use a remote control. Like not, like, you know, hey, that's not going to work out. But, you know, maybe you also write on the side or you love cooking or whatever, and you don't have a community that exactly hits the niche that you want to. So you can start your own. And I mean, it can be a very low risk to kind of try that out. And these days, I mean, there's so many studies about the value of community and how important it is. And kind of going back to what we talked about during the, the Going Live episode, it's like, you know, people want a space to be able to talk about things and share, share these commonalities. And they want the support and the accountability to sometimes do things too. So that can be another really cool thing to tap into is showing up and giving people a reason to show up and create something together, or work alongside each other as you create something.

Lauren: Yeah, I think the that's also a very important piece of community that I think is an element that misses, or a lot of people miss the mark by, by not realizing this. Is that community has to have... not entirely equal value like, but there has to be... like, there has to be something for everybody. It can't just be like you as the creator or owner of this space are benefiting. That is just being a parasite. That's that's not community. You know, you want a symbiotic relationship with everybody involved. So it can't just be you, you know, starting a forum somewhere or a live video somewhere and saying, hey, I need feedback on my, on my most recent project that I'm working on. Everyone come to me and give me feedback. But you can

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: can go out there and say, hey, I need feedback on this project that I'm working on. Does anyone want to do like a, you know, free for all workshop where everyone gets ten minutes to, to share what they're working on and ask a few questions about it?

Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Lauren: Like, yeah.

[14:22] – Shifting from Audience to Community

Chelsea: And then, I mean, just talking about kind of going from audience to community. Cause I feel like I, we kind of jumped into – probably because of me, my fault. But I feel like we kind of just jumped into community and like what it is or what it can be. But like, moving from audience to community and what you said, I think, is really important, because you can't really do that if it is just self-serving. Like people spot that out immediately. If you try to build a community and you just, like you said, you see it as an opportunity for you to have like beta readers or product testers or, you know, something like that, then what's the point? Like, why would they show up? And maybe you can get people at the beginning to try something like that. But yeah, when you're thinking about like what will add value for the the members of this community, how will you do that? Is it because you're sharing your expertise? In some communities that I've seen, they have like, educational programs. Like Fictionary is a really wonderful community. If you are a fiction author, Kristina Stanley has done a great job of building that community, and she offers a lot of resources to help you become a better writer, she has workshops or certification programs. So that's one way to do it. Another great one is Women in Publishing. And really what you're getting there is the connections. These are all women that are in the publishing industry. Both of these communities also have like, kind of a foundation of just being kind and helpful. So I think that that's really important too, is kind of thinking about, on the outset, what are you offering? And kind of what is the rule- not rules. Well, yeah, rules. Communities can have –

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: – rules. So like, what are you bringing to the table? And what is everyone that comes to the community, what do they need to know off the bat? What are they getting from it, and what are you going to be giving them, I think, is kind of important.

Lauren: Yeah, I think that it's actually, very important to underline rules as one of those things which I, I fully believe that any formal community, or even kind of unofficial one, should have some kind of guidelines for how people behave within there. Even if it's just for the sake of being able to say like, hey, if you're mean, we reserve the right to boot you out of this space. You know?

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: Hopefully you never actually have to do that, but you have it covered if you need to.

Chelsea: Yeah. But also, I mean, I think it helps with expectations. When you say like here, like, this is a space for like, uplifting each other and helping each other and sharing resources. And then, yeah, I mean, because sometimes, you know, people, even if they don't mean it. Like I think, sometimes people, you know, are a little bit maybe snarky or they have a different personality or sense of humor than you do. And so sometimes you may respond to something or comment in the community in a way that you don't think makes you sound like a jerk, but other people do. So maybe you have a policy that's like, yeah, you get one warning. If you continue this jerk-ish behavior, then you'll get kicked out of the community. But I think for like, best practices for starting a community it's, you know, understand the, the give and take of what you will be providing. Like we said either if it's like education, if it's resources, if it's, you know, a connection to you. So, you know, for authors, sometimes a community like one of the benefits is you’ll have these calls with your audience or your, your community, rather, and you'll talk to them. Or you'll let, you know, have AMAs and things like this, so maybe that's it. But kind of getting clear on what you're offering and what the community can expect. And then, yeah, having like a set of, of, of... is there a better way to say rules? What's a more fun way to say rules? Guidelines?

Lauren: Guidelines? Community... I was gonna say community rules. Community guidelines, community... I, I know there is a nice word. Why is the word doctrine coming to mind? That's also not the word. It's actually getting worse? We’re about to join a cult.

Chelsea: Community rules doctrine. Yeah, right. Yeah I – yeah, right. What are you... Conscription? Yeah. What are we signing up for here?

Lauren: The commandments, here you go.

Chelsea: Yeah. You have to wear the same hoodies and sign the commandments. Yeah but, I mean, but in agreement. I mean, this is so basic for, like, Facebook groups or like, even if

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: you go into like, any Reddit thread, it'll kind of have like some, some things to be aware of. We'll say guidelines instead of commandments and doctrine, for now. But yeah, I mean, I think that's good because it gets people in the right mindset of like, again, kind of, reinforcing what this community is for and what you can expect from it. And then, you know, like you said, you hope that you'll never have to, like, have disciplinary actions in your community, but the time might come where someone comes into it expecting one thing and, you know, then they maybe say things that aren't aligned with the community that you want. You want to be able to kind of have that to fall back on. To say hey, you know, this isn't really how we roll. You know, you're out. So I think it kind of helps you too, as a community builder, when you have these, these things in place before you kind of get started.

Lauren: Yeah, I think that is really good to have. Because I think that also, one of the things that's really important to, to understand when you're trying to foster a community space, is that it all like comes down to whether or not people feel safe enough to participate in that space. It is not a communication echo chamber. Like it has to be something that, that people feel like they can actually comment or share or reply or or speak up in a group. And, you know, that doesn't mean that you have to 100% protect the space, like, militantly or anything like that. But it does have to be, like. There has to be some kind of structure in, in some way or another that it's like, hey, if if two people start getting into it in the comment section, and it goes on for like two days to the point where people start doxing each other, there's got to be, there's got to be something you can do to pull the plug and say like hey, enough's enough. Cut it out. You know? We don't have to

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: ban everybody immediately.

Chelsea: Yeah, I mean, yeah obviously no one – gosh this just like, got to worst case scenario where we're talking about doxing, doctrines, and commandments so fast. But hopefully your community will be a little bit more light hearted than this. And. So I, yeah, I mean, but all these things are important. And also if you are thinking of creating the community, I think it's important to look at it holistically. Because, you know, that's kind of when it doesn’t, sometimes it doesn't really take off, is if you don't really think about it as like, okay, well, how can I build a foundation where it is going to grow? And if you have a community that is successful, eventually you're gonna wanna pull in, probably, moderators or other people that can kind of help you support the community. And then it kind of goes back to your, your guide, guidelines you said in the beginning. Because then you're bringing on people who are like-minded, who understand the vision that you had, and of the community, and can kind of help you, you know, support that vision that you started out with. So I do think that those things are important and it's kind of good to have, just a couple rules in place, because if your community is on the internet, the internet is a big place. And, you know, who knows who will end up there. But hopefully just the right people.

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, hopefully the people that, that fit well in the space.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: For whatever, whatever reasons that they're all trying to be there.

[21:44] – Practicalities of Hosting a Community

Lauren: Which I think is another important part of, of building community and building a space like that. But I want to come back to that because first, I want to also point out just in what you just said, also just think technically in the same way that we've talked about in other episodes, too. One of the I mean, I think one of the reasons that our community did not go as well as we might have hoped was that it was kind of an unfamiliar real estate for all of us.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: Including the people that we invited to, to join the community space. And that is something, if you've listened to the episodes that Matt and I have done we did one at the end of 2025 that was definitely not predictions for 2026. And then in June of 2026, we did like a mid-year check in on those not predictions and –

Chelsea: Doctrines?

Lauren: Yes, doctrines. Absolutely. Mandates, if you will, from, from the past to the future. And, and one of the things that I talked about in there was the like, the growth of community as like, something that's top of mind for a lot of creators. And then at the same time, the fact that there really is no universally accepted platform for community these days. And for a very long time, it was Facebook. And, you know, some people still try with Facebook for, for better or worse. Like, I don't, I don't think anything has come that has kind of usurped that as the, the best solution. But it is becoming something that, you know, ten years ago everybody was on Facebook. These days, not so much. It’s not as ubiquitous as it used to be. And there is nothing else that has, that has joined that. So if you are going to build a community space, if you're looking into it and you're saying, I really want to build a community on Discord. I don't know what Discord is, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Chelsea: Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, there's – yeah, there's a ton of these platforms and yeah, I, I completely agree with you. You want to have some familiarity with it. And I also want to kind of note, like what you were saying about the community that we built. So we, we used Circle, which I think is a great platform. And there are a lot of communities built on that. But it can be whatever you, whatever’s gonna make sense for you. If you have a, an audience that is already on Discord, is on Reddit all the time, is active on Facebook. I mean, there are some things that are a bit commonsensical, if that's a word.

Lauren: It is now.

Chelsea: So. It is now. So yeah, I mean, if your audience is already active somewhere, then do that. You can always ask them. Say hey, I'm thinking about starting a community. What, what's going to make the most sense? And also social platforms. You can build community there. You know, any social platform that you're already active on if you want to do that. And just maybe going live is how you connect with your community. I mean, we talked about that. Check out that episode if you haven't seen it. But maybe you want to do that. Or if you want to go fully fledged and you have a bit more control over it, where it is gated and you do a Circle or you do, you know, your own Discord channel, or you do a Facebook group. But another thing that I kind of wanted to mention is what you talked about with, with our community that we tried. We tried with a very specific subset of the Lulu audience. Like. So it kind of goes back to audience doesn't equal community. Because at Lulu, we're fortunate that we have hundreds of thousands of authors that use Lulu. And that's a tremendous honor to be a part of that. But they all are doing very different things. I mean, wildly, wildly different things. If you look through our catalog of books, I always say like, any book that you could think of, someone has published something about it on Lulu. Which is fun.

Lauren: It is.

Chelsea: And – yeah. But, but, you know, we, we were like, okay, we want to work, like, we want to talk to people who are selling direct. This is probably a group that is like-minded. They're going to need more support, or they're going to need these resources. And we sort of built something around that without kind of asking the audience. So that's something that I think if – like you said, hindsight is 20/20. I could knock it out of the park today, I'm sure. Don't show this to Matt. But, but, you know, I think first asking your community or your audience, like hey, here's something I'm thinking about, if it isn't already organically happening. Because you could notice that every time you go live, you're seeing the same people show up. Or every time you send out an email, the same people are opening and interacting with the same, or a certain kind of content that you're sending. Every social post, you're sort of seeing the same response. So if that kind of gives you the idea that you may have something there... Say hey, I'm thinking about building this space, what would you think about coming and joining? What do you want? So I think that that's a really important part about building community too, is letting your audience dictate as much as you can the, the community space that you're building. And then again, like you said, I mean, there are a ton of different platforms and ways to do it. And so once you kind of understand the audience interest that you have, then you can follow up and say, are there any platforms that you're already active on and then kind of go from there. And try to go, you know, the path of least resistance isn't always the best one, but for something like this, you don't want to train them to use a new platform if they're already doing something else. Anything that's going to be a hurdle for them to get into your community and engage with it, you definitely want to remove that friction.

Lauren: Especially if it is something that you're, you're digging into this because you've noticed that it's starting to happen organically already. If it's starting, if there's something is, is starting to grow organically and you try to like, pull it out and move it to somewhere else, that's just gonna kill it.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: Like, that's

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: that’s not actually going to succeed in fostering that at all. So, you know? I mean, just, I think it's important to... I mean, as it is with so many other things we've talked about. We talked about this in the episode about going live. We've talked about this in episodes about social media and, you know, doing paid ad campaigns for, for books and product launches and stuff like that. Choose wisely. Choose, you know? Especially the goal is for this to be someplace that people want to spend time, including you. And you want it to be on a platform that you like spending time on.

Chelsea: Yeah. Right, right.

Lauren: I think that's – I think people kind of underestimate that a lot. A lot of like the just realizing like, oh, I don't... I mean, for me, Circle. It was cool when I would see my, my daily ClickUp task reminder to go open the Circle community and look at it. And I would say, ooh yeah, right. But Circle is not something that I like regularly, it's not in my rotation of doomscrolling through the apps at any time during the day, professionally or personally. And that's a, that's a habit that I would have built eventually, but...

Chelsea: But we never got there.

Lauren: We never, we never got that far. But you don't have to ask people to, to get in the habit of coming to your space if you're building it somewhere that they already are regularly.

Chelsea: Yeah. That's true. I mean, for sure, yeah. And so when you're thinking about launching a community... Again, if, if you're kind of seeing it happen organically and you aren't sure the platform, then yeah, what is going to be the least amount of friction to getting people there?

[29:39] – Fostering Engagement Within Your Community

Chelsea: But then something else that you just said that I was going to mention, is as you kind of start to think about your community, then maybe thinking of, you know, what kind of content are you gonna be sharing there, and what will it look like? There are situations where communities kind of... can organically grow on their own. And, you know, especially with writers and creative spaces, because people that are creative want to talk about what they're working on. And they want to get feedback, and they're excited to share it. And so sometimes you can say, hey, this space is for crafting. I am knitting seasonal vests, and I want you to join me and let's talk about that. And then that might be enough to really have a conversation going and that could, that could be enough for your community. But if you want it to be something like, you know. For our community, we were trying to create more of a mastermind group where we had these people who are running businesses and publishing books and selling books as a part of it, and we wanted them to have a space where they could share best practices, ask questions, and support each other through that. So I think on paper that makes sense, and that's great. But you can't just expect people to show up and pitch in and spend time building your community. And hopefully, like you said, like they'll, it'll be part of their routine and they'll be happy to be there, and you'll be happy to be there. And the conversation will be organic. But when you're just getting started, just think about like a content calendar. Of like, okay, so throughout the week I'm gonna share a couple different pieces of content, because you may have to prompt the conversations. I mean, I know you and I are both self-proclaimed lurkers on the internet and so, it’s, so to get a lurker to become a participator, sometimes you have to kind of prime the pump or whatever. So just thinking of like some softball questions, like one of the things that we did in the beginning that did work, was just having a little scavenger hunt where we were like, alright. Introduce yourself, comment on someone else's post, you know, tell us a little bit about why you're here. And then that can be a great way to get people started. Because at least you'll have in the home page people introducing themselves. There's more visibility when you get new members and things like that. So just thinking about, you know, what can I do that is going to give people a reason to engage, if you don't see it happening organically.

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah, I think that a lot of people – I mean, I won't speak for anyone but me, but I would say like a solid 50% of my lurking comes from the anxiety of what do I say? Like.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: Oh my god, like, what if I say something really lame and it's got my name attached to it, and everyone can then just click on it and look at my profile and go oh my God, who's this lame weirdo? Like what? Like, oh no, I just – and so, I'm just not going to say anything until like, the right thing. And then all of a sudden it's been six months and you've been a member of this, of this space for six months, and you still haven't said anything. And now you're, now it's like, oh my God, it has to be the perfect thing to say. If I don't say the perfect thing, then, then what, what's the point? And, you know, it's – a lot of that pressure goes away when somebody starts off right off the bat being like hey, welcome to the group. Introduce yourself here.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: And like post, like don't even introduce yourself. Like, literally here's a, here's a template. Like here, welcome to the group. Tell us your name, what brought you here, as geographically close to where you live as you want to get, and what, what –

Chelsea: Dox yourself.

Lauren: What was the animal that you were obsessed with when you were in middle school and everyone had to have a favorite animal?

Chelsea: Yes. Yeah.

Lauren: Mine was penguins.

Chelsea: Oh, I'm a platypi.

Lauren: Nice.

Chelsea: Platypi, myself. But I yeah, I mean, I think and the fun stuff is, it does break the ice. The icebreakers are fun. And it's funny that you think at some point in your future every internet comment you've ever made will be read against you.

Lauren: I actually think

Chelsea: That's why you're in jail, for all your lame internet posts.

Lauren: I was going to say, this is – that's my bad place, is just like Ted Danson sitting there reading to me a list of every lame thing I've ever said on the internet.

Chelsea: What's up guys? Yeah, I mean, I know I'm the same way. I'm the same way. Not – Yeah, I am pretty much a lifelong lurker. And I was thinking about, coming into this, like what would someone have to do to get me to engage in a community? And I was, for me, it would be learning something. Like, I would just need to be there to learn something. And your community, I'll also, I'll say, can be like, I was going to say timestamped, but that's not. But like, it can be for a season or a certain amount of time. Like, you know?

Lauren: Aboslutely.

Chelsea: I mean, like I, I know that you have a race coming up. It is very exciting. So you I mean, you could have created a community where it's just for like this specific half marathon, like we're just going to talk about it until it happens. And of course something can come out of that afterwards, but that's another way to think of it. If you have something to teach or you are working on a project and you want to see if you can create a community around it, maybe giving yourself or just saying, this is going to be a three month thing. While I'm working through this, I kind of want to work in public. I want other people to do it with me. And then it gives you a nice little out at the end of it. You're like well, this went nowhere. And then you can just kind of hope that Ted Danson doesn't find out.

Lauren: I mean, but but yes, honestly. I've actually – I think that's a great way, if you want to test the waters of, of trying out community space for something that has an inherent shelf life. So that, you know if you, if it winds up going horribly wrong, you can pull the plug without feeling embarrassed about it.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: I've seen so many like, concerts that I've been to, that like, it's like an annual concert and there's a Facebook group that always starts for that concert that is people are like, hey, who's coming from out of town? Are you looking for dinner recommendations? Are you, like, is anyone looking for an extra ticket for one of the nights, or whatever? And then inevitably, you know, concert passes, the group kind of, kind of fades away. But someone will say there is a, like, community that's an evergreen community that is just for fans of this band, if you want to come over here and join it.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: That's, that's a great way to like, test the waters and be like, hey, you know, I'm just, just trying this out for a little while for a dated event or for even like genuinely a conference or an event that's coming up.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: And just

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: hey, you know. Yeah, test it out and, and see what happens there.

Chelsea: Yeah, that's a great point, is that events can be a really nice, very fertile ground for, for a community. Cause, like you said, I mean, there's that inherent need there to, like, know what's going on if you are from out of town, like what to expect. And it kind of gives you a reason to show up every day and to ask questions and, and for people to engage. So I think, you know, if, if that can, if that model can work for you or if you do want to start a community, but maybe you're just unsure, it seems like a big undertaking. You don't want to, like I did, wake up one morning and have to say, this is not happening. Like it's, and send the email of hey everybody, thanks so much. We're going to have to record myself crying in my kitchen floor and do an apology video because it didn't work out. So, you know, if you do want to do that, then that's another way to do it, is like an event-based thing. Maybe you're hosting an event. It could be something small. It certainly doesn't have to be huge, but you just say, hey, here's where we're going to be. If anyone wants to meet up before or after, you know, let's, let's talk about that. So yeah, that's a great idea of, of how to make that happen and how to make it work for you.

Lauren: Absolutely. I also just have to add, because I didn't – I was also thinking about like, what would make you participate as a lurker, as some, as other than being handed a prompt that I wanna... And I didn't realize what it was until you gave your answer. Mine is – because mine is the opposite, mine is when somebody is asking a question that I know the answer to. That is like, suddenly the anxiety goes away of like, like if I, if I know for sure, if somebody's asking a question and I'm like, oh, this is, this is my area of interest, or this is something that I have factual knowledge on, I can help this person.

Chelsea: Yes.

Lauren: You're not being lame if you're being helpful.

Chelsea: Clip it. You're not being lame if you're being helpful. Yeah, well, but I think that that's it. And that is another good point is like it – You can't always choose the levels of like, expertise that you have in a community. Sometimes it is going to be more novice, but if you can have people in who are on different stages of the journey or the process or the community or the fandom or whatever it is, that's a great point. Because people, you know, like to be helpful. They also like to be right. So if you can give them a place to do both of these things, if you can kind of mix up your community to where you have obviously, you know, new people, where they're not familiar with the, the, the doctrine or the creed or how the community works. And then you have, you know, people who are at that moderator status or would become that if you, if you get to that level, then they can kind of come in and welcome it and introduce them to, to the community or to how the process works, or answer those beginner questions. And so yeah, I mean, and that also kind of gives people more of a stake in it, like.

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: So, gamifying it a little bit and like, you know, there are a lot of different communities that do this, where if you answer a certain amount of questions right, or if you're the top percent of posters or you're the top percentage of commenters and, you know. Gamifying it can also be a way to help increase engagement and, you know, make it fun for people to be there.

Lauren: Yeah, I think there's... people underestimate how much other people like just being, like, celebrated? Even just for

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: for like, mundane little things. And I think

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: that is something that really encourages a lot of people to continue to participate and come back in, in some community spaces.

Chelsea: And just like, giving like the acknowledgment. Right? Cause like

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: what is the point of being in a community if you're not gonna be seen? And like, yes, you know, there are, there probably will be a small percentage of people who are just like, until they're comfortable just kind of watching how things happen. But that, you know, I – before, you wouldn't know it by my experience, but before we launched the Lulu community, I read a book about it. I read about it in a book about building communities. And that's one of the biggest things, is like. Cause you want people to feel that there are stakes. And so if people are joining your community and they're not acknowledged, and there's no like, hey. And you can do this, like, through email flows or like, depending on the platform you use, it can be pretty, like, automated. But hey, welcome to the community, thank you for being here. And just making sure that that person that took the time to join your community is being acknowledged and they are being seen, and you are, like, thanking them for,

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: for being a part of what you're trying to build.

Lauren: I mean it's, it's what everyone wants community for in the first place. When we, when we talk about community as a verb and not specifically, just like a digital space on the internet. That, like, that's what people are looking for. I want to join a group of other people that see me and understand what I'm saying or what I'm doing there, and support me, and are appreciative of me doing the same to them. You know?

Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Lauren: I think that's – which like, I think is all part of the like, you know, making sure that you're giving people not just a reason to be there, but a reason to like, come back.

Chelsea: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

[41:10] – Giving People a Reason to Come Back

Chelsea: And I think that kind of goes back to like, especially when you're getting started, just kind of trying to create some sort of loose outline of, again, what are you bringing to the table that would make people want to come back? And if it's the conversations, how are you spurring the conversations? If it's learning something, how are you facilitating that? Are you dropping, you know, exclusive content or gated content? Or are you having guests come on that are really experienced in what you're talking about or, you know, doing a live reading or book reviews, or having – I mean, again, you know. I, I'm – surprisingly I didn’t know how, like, much this would tie into live content. But giving people a reason to, to show up. And in a lot of communities, you can go live and you can say, hey, you know, we're going to talk about this today, or if it's a community where, you know, maybe more of a mastermind group, like a hot seat type situation, where you come in and you say, you know, what are you, what problem are you trying to solve right now? Let us all kind of dive in and hear about it and work on it. So yeah, I mean, giving a reason for people to show up, is also really important. Not only because, I mean, what one thing I learned in my experience is like joining is just half the battle. Like there are a lot of people who will open a link or follow a link or sign up for something because you ask them to. But the hardest part was the engagement. And we did a lot of things. I think for us, it came back to a bit of a mismatch of like, thinking audience was community.

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: And not really doing enough work to make the audience the community. And then the - and this is okay, but there is such a wide range of like, goals for the people in our community. Because some people really wanted to grow their business, and people wanted to publish more books. Some people wanted to connect with other professionals. Some people just need to figure out how to format their project, you know? So, I mean, there was not a lot of, there wasn't a lot of congruency on why they were there. And so I think that that too is like, having a shared goal for your community, which kind of goes back to, of course, the guidelines and everything. But like having that shared goal so that when people come, they know what every, everyone is kind of working towards or what they're all trying to achieve. And obviously it can take many forms and it can look different person to person, but you all know that like, you're trying to finish your book, or you're trying to like run a half marathon, or you're trying to find the best places to eat homemade pasta in Wisconsin or, you know, whatever, you know what I'm saying?

Lauren: If anyone has any recommendations for that specifically, let us know in the comments. I've never been to Wisconsin, but if there is really good homemade pasta there, I'm willing to make the trip.

Chelsea: I don't know, they obviously cheese. I did go to a cheese palace in Wisconsin a couple of years ago, and that was incredible.

Lauren: Good point. Good point, yeah.

Chelsea: Yeah, it was incredible. For the first couple of hours. Won’t fill you in on how the rest of it went.

Lauren: But no, I mean, I do think that's that's a good point. And I, you know, I also don't want that to be discouraging. I think that there

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: is actually, I think a sign of, of a really successful community is one where you see like subgroups forming within the groups.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: Not in a, in a rude, clique-y, exclusionary kind of way. But, you know, if you are – we keep using the example of writers, that we've said, you know, do a live, I'm, I'm going live to do writing sprints, like, come join me and work on my project, on a project with me. Okay, great. Maybe you get 50 people to start regularly coming and joining. And the, the original premise of that is that you guys are all just keeping each other accountable while you're writing. And the whole goal of that, like the shared goal of that whole time, is that you're all going to be using that time to write. And then maybe after a few months, some of you have made it far enough into your manuscripts that you're ready to start editing, and you're looking for some people that might want to workshop editing with you.

Chelsea: I think that that's, that's a great thing, yeah. If your community can support and create its own spin off communities – in the right way, of course – then I think that's great.

[45:19] – Experimenting with Success and Failure

Chelsea: And yeah, and I also wanted to say, because when you were talking about, you know, I don't want this to sound like it's a failure, I thought you were talking about me. And so I was going to say

Lauren: I don’t think you’re a failure either.

Chelsea: Thank you, thank you. But, but I want to say it's always a learning experience, right? I mean, these are all, like, everything that we presented to you together, you know, in the podcast episodes that we've done together, it's all an experiment. And, and I saw, like, I did a Lulu U video, it hasn't come out yet, but it was just about like, publishing fails. Because obviously, as we all know, there's a lot that can go on when you're publishing a book. And I ended it like I saw someone post on Reddit and they were like, I love self-publishing and I love independent publishing because it's just a series of experiments and I'm learning every time. And I mean, not everyone. Sometimes you get frustrated with the experimental thing is you also need to work and that makes sense to you. But everything that you try, I think if you can approach it like that, it's such a healthy way to do it. Because you don't know how it's going to go and you

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: don't know how it's going to be received. And hopefully you're getting these cues from your audience that is saying to you, okay, I think that there's something here. I think that there's something that I can create that will support these people and support, you know, my goals for my business as well as what they want to do. But if you do it and it's not working out the way that you want it, or if for one reason or another you decide to close it, that's just more data that you have to make the next thing that you do successful. And, and if you say, I really want to do the community, but this wasn't the way to do it. Okay, great. Well, now you know everything that you don't want to do, you shouldn't do. And you know how to do it better the next time. So, I always kind of like to add that in our conversations as like, a little safety net catch all that like, no matter what you want to try, if you can approach it from the mindset of I'm just trying it out. Like, you know, I don't have, you know, here's how I want it to go, but maybe your expectations are a bit... realistic. And so you just say, hey, here's what I'm going to try. And if it doesn't work out, then now I've learned through this experience and I'll be better for it. And I think, I mean, I know that we learned a lot when we went through that process. So I always like to kind of throw that in there, that all of these things, regardless of how you feel approaching them, it can be a great learning opportunity no matter how it turns out. You know.

Lauren: It's also, it's not just a learning opportunity for you. It's not just something that you can use to, to grow and improve and, and trial and error things with your brand. But it's also information capital that you can share with other people.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: So, you know, maybe that is where your community comes in. Maybe Chelsea's next community is going to be why my first community failed.

Chelsea: Oh yeah.

Lauren: And you guys can all learn from me and and, like, learn how to not do your community so that your communities succeed. And then

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: they come in and, and share information with you that helps your community succeed.

Chelsea: That's right. My community will be for failed community creators. And then, you know, people can come in and share their horror stories. Yeah. But no, that's a great point, too. It's all content, right? I mean, I 100% made a Lulu U video about that experience. Because we've talked about, of course, as you said, I mean, community and success and building a brand is so hand-in-hand. I mean, every single brand is trying to figure out how to unlock the community and the fandom for what they're creating. No matter what you have, that's what you're after. Is for people to be so excited about whatever you're creating, they want to be a part of it, and they identify with it, and they want to connect with other people about it. That's the goal. So, regardless of how it goes, you know, that's – you can still talk about, again, how it went, why you did it, how it works, fine tune it. But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, building the community is, is something that will support you along your journey of creating a sustainable business. And it can look a lot of different ways, as always. I mean, we have talked about this before, but it's like numbers. The numbers on some of these things could be almost a vanity metric. Cause if you have 25 people in your community who show up for you and who give you great feedback, who you can give good information to you, maybe it operates more as a mastermind group, like we've kind of talked about, then that is just as valuable as having a Facebook group or a community of 500 people that sometimes check in or and sometimes, you know, you don't hear from for weeks at a time.

Lauren: Absolutely. And we've talked about that in other episodes. We've talked about that in, in relation to community and to audience building in general, the idea of the thousand true fans theory.

Chelsea: It's like, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, whether you a year from now have, you know, a thousand people in it that it's just chugging along, or you have twelve people, or you have no people, you've learned something. And, and you, I think, have improved as a creator because it takes work. Like, you have to show up, like you have to show up on a regular basis. If you're not enjoying the community, no one else is. And you have to be putting into it what you want to get out. So even if at the end of your run, if you wanted to give yourself three months, six months, a year, then you that's a year of content that you've been creating. That's a year of you showing up and proving to yourself that you can do something like that. And then who knows? I mean, that skillset translates. I mean we, we've talked about this a lot with even this podcast and Lauren, how many, how much you've learned and now you're launching your own podcast. So who knew that, you know, just showing up and putting in the work can become so much more valuable than the actual thing that you were trying to do. It's like building that muscle of, you know, showing up every day and being accountable.

Lauren: It's just, it's all an experiment. It's fine.

Chelsea: Yeah, it is. This, what we're doing right now is an experiment. This is our first virtual one. You may be able to tell that my, my lighting is a work in progress. This is all, like, again. Talking, I mean, scheduling this with Lauren’s parole officer, a work in progress.

Lauren: We had to get so much permission.

Chelsea: Good thing we – Yeah, we both have our prison jumpsuits on. So, unexpected. But, but yeah, I mean. And the whole the starting the podcast, doing the Lulu U videos, you know, trying the community, I think as long as – the net net is keep trying.

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: Keep showing up, keep putting in the work, keep trying.

Lauren: There's always, there's always something new to try. There's always something to learn from the things that you're trying. And I think that, you know, as cliche as it is, like the, the biggest mistake you could be or you could do would be to just not try anything. If you're.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: If you’re, you know? That's coming from a certified lurker who is too afraid to speak up in 95% of the communities that she is in.

Chelsea: From a certified, Ted Danson certified lame lurker telling you..Yeah, no I – yeah, I completely agree, I completely agree. It's, it's I, you know, it's like all those books say, it's like if it scares you, then you should probably do it, do something that scares you every day, blah, blah, blah. What scares me right now is how bright this light is in my face and the coloring that I'm showing in this in this episode. But yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think go for it. There's a thousand ways to do it. There's a ton of different platforms you can use. Best case scenario, you meet some really cool people who are aligned with what your vision is and your goals and love what you do. Worst case scenario, you learn that you should try to do it a different way. But you're still, you're still able to kind of move forward on a trajectory of improving and, and isn't that what the goal is?

Lauren: It's always the goal, I think. I think that's it. But, you know, I mean, if you, if you don't trust yourself to try it, trust us to try it.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: Maybe.

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: I mean, clearly I think we've, we've gotten up here now multiple episodes in a row and talked about experiments that we've tried, and also ones that have failed, you know?

Chelsea: Yeah.

Lauren: I didn't, I didn't demand that Chelsea come up here and talk about this community. Like, we could have gotten through this whole episode without you ever talking about that if you didn't want to. And, and that would’ve been fine.

Chelsea: Well, yeah. But what would be? What was the value of going through all of that

Lauren: Right.

Chelsea: if not to share and say that, you know – And, you know, and shout out to Lulu because, you know, we're fortunate to work for a company that lets us try things out and test things out. But yeah, I mean I... community, like I said, is something that's so important. And so I wanted to try it. I felt like it was definitely worthwhile, and it was because now if I was tasked with doing that again, I would do it completely differently. I would approach it completely differently. And yeah, I mean, you you, you didn't ask me to do that, but I thought what would be the point of going through that if, if I didn't share that it's not just individuals that try things and sometimes they don't work out you know,

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: it happens to brands as well.

Lauren: It happens to everybody. And I honestly think it's more interesting when people – and, and more human, which really is I mean, ultimately with, with community and most other content marketing efforts that are happening in 2026 and beyond. They're all circling back to brands, business owners, solopreneurs, massive entrepreneurs, whatever, desperately trying to prove that they're real people. That there are real people behind the content and behind the products and behind the services and everything else that's going on. And this is one of the ways to do that. Put yourself out there. Try. Encourage other people to put themselves out there too, and try along with you.

Chelsea: Yeah. It's like, well, I was going to say one thing about what you said is, yeah, I saw someone the other day that posted something online that was like, I used to like go through all my emails and correspondences and like, make sure that everything was spelled correctly, there were no typos. And like, now I don't do that because it makes me look human. But what your, to your point that you ended it with about like, you have to go out there and try and let other people show, like make other people feel like they can. It's like that video if you've ever seen of some like, it's like the lawn of some like super crunchy hippie concert and there's like one guy dancing and everyone's kind of standing around. But he is just dancing his little heart out. And then another person joins and then another person joins and then everybody gets in, and it's all because that one guy was like, yes, I will. I will.

Lauren: Absolutely.

Lauren: And genuinely, like that is – I might not be ever, ever the first person to, to post in a community when someone's asking for a conversation starter. But I am known among my friends that if you need to get the dance floor started at your wedding, just let me know. You just gotta put on a song that I like and I'm out there.

Chelsea: It's T-Pain I'mma Buy U A Drank. We covered that.

[56:09] – Episode Wrap Up

Lauren: Alright, Chelsea, any last thoughts on, on community here?

Chelsea: Do it. It's great. Don't build it and then they will come. This is a scenario where that doesn't work. Find out what will support your audience and what will support your business and if there is synergy there. And then ask. Ask, ask your audience what they want. And give them a place where they can feel seen and heard and a place they'll be excited to be. And just think of it as an experiment, and you'll do just fine.

Lauren: It's all an experiment. That's it.

Chelsea: All of it.

Lauren: That’s all you need. This is an experiment right now, obviously in more ways than one. We are testing out some new formats.

Chelsea: Yes.

Lauren: You've already seen one or two guest episodes at this point, if you've watched our recent episodes. We are going to start adding a few more of those into the mix, including more episodes with Chelsea that will most likely be virtual. Like this.

Chelsea: Yes.

Lauren: So, you know, as, as everything else in our office and everything else is changing, this too shall change. And we will figure out, you know, the

Chelsea: This too shall change. Yes, our, our

Lauren: Yeah.

Chelsea: our constant battle with lighting and backgrounds will continue.

Lauren: Yup.

Chelsea: We shall – right before, right before we joined Lauren said the chaos persists, but so do I. That should just be the, the byline for this podcast. But yeah, I'm here any time you'll have me. I so appreciate it, Lauren. Yeah. Thank you.

Lauren: Thanks.

Chelsea: Thank you very much.

Lauren: I appreciate your willingness to come hang out with me in my padded cell.

Chelsea: Jail? We can't disclose why you're there, but we're glad that the internet works. Free Lauren. Click below to donate to Lauren's GoFundMe and we can spring her out of prison.

Lauren: Like and subscribe to get me – 100 likes gets me out of jail.

Chelsea: Hey you know what?

Lauren: But only on a day pass.

Chelsea: Yeah. Actually, there's a great book on Lulu that some people wrote that is prison recipes. They had an incarcerated loved one, and they... it was, it was actually pretty genius.

Lauren: Well, if anyone has any, any recipes that they would like to share with us. Please leave a comment, let us know, leave a review.

Chelsea: Please.

Lauren: And anything else that you'd like to talk about. Clearly we're opening the floor for Chelsea to talk about things other than YouTube now, finally.

Chelsea: Yes, yes.

Lauren: I’ve let her break free of that, that specific genre of content. So if there's anything you want to hear us talk more about, any ideas you want to share, any communities you are a part of that you want to shout out, let us know. We'd love to hear from you.

Chelsea: Yeah, yeah. So far I've been relegated to YouTube and things that I've failed at. So what's next?

Lauren: Something incredible and experimental.

Chelsea: Always. Always.

Lauren: Well, come back and join us for another new episode. Next week I... actually can't remember anymore. It's not going to be Chelsea next week, I know that. It might be Matt. Might be, might be somebody else. Who knows. You'll have to come and find out. But until then, thank you, Chelsea, thanks for joining us. And thank you to the listeners for joining us and listening or watching.

Chelsea: Thank you listening watchers. Like and subscribe.

Lauren: Later.