Matt: Welcome back everyone. For those of you who are not watching us on YouTube, you're only listening to us, we are at CEX. We are in a makeshift studio, which was so graciously put together by our very talented video person, who will remain unnamed. 

Lauren: Not me. He's not talking about me. 

Matt: I'm just kidding. It was Ashley. And we are joined by one of our most favorite authors, and long time, Lulu allies and partners, Lynette Greenfield. Who flew all the way over here from Australia and is fighting some jet lag. Nonetheless, I think we're going to have some fun here. We’re gonna – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: – ask some really great questions of Lynette and her journey so far as an author with quite a few titles, as well as the founder of Limelight Publishing, which is a successful hybrid publishing company based in Australia. So thank you for joining us. 

Lynette: Thank you for having me. 

Matt: Fighting the jet lag. 

Lynette: I’m very tired. 

Matt: Dealing with our makeshift studio. 

Lynette: I’m up to 2:30 AM for me now. 

Matt: And now you have to stare at me and Lauren. 

Lynette: It’s good to see you again, at least. 

Lauren: Yeah, it’s been a while. 

Matt: We have a long history with Lynette. You used to join us sometimes at BEA in New York. 

Lynette: Yes.

Matt: Which was a lot of fun. 

Lynette: That first time I was with another company – 

Matt: That’s right. 

Lynette: – and just happened to be seated opposite you. And I actually had made a phone call to try to find out where you guys were, cause I wasn’t familiar with it all. And somebody had told me the booth name, but I couldn’t find you. So the next day I went in and suddenly you were just opposite where we were sitting, and I don’t know how that happened. So I was like hey. 

Matt: We were probably late to set up that day. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: We're not the most timely people on the planet.

Lynette: Yeah. Then you took one of the books, and we got talking and everything and then I came with you guys the following year. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: So truly a real world application of all the times that we say how great events are. 

Lynette: Exactly. 

Lauren: And what a valuable experience it is to go –

Lynette: Exactly. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – do an event. 

Lynette: Because like I said in one of the interviews when I was there, people always say to me, or used to always say to me, what do you want? All I wanted was to just be with you guys and do a signing. And I don't know why. I just, I felt like doing a signing with you guys, because I loved the platform so much and I got so much out of it, was more fulfilling than getting a book deal.  Which I eventually did get. But for me, it just felt like that next step, with where I wanted to go. I couldn't believe that it actually happened. My husband was the one that sort of spoke into existence. So now every time he says something like, oh that plant looks like it’s dying, I’m like don’t speak it out loud. You know these things come true. 

Matt: He's a great manifester. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: We had fun in 2018. That signing. We had Omar Epps at our table. 

Lynette: That was awesome. 

Matt: We had Lynette. We had quite a few people, it was fun. 

Lynette: It was really great, yeah.

Lauren: I wasn’t there for that. 

Matt: Lauren wasn't with us yet. 

Lynette: Some of the authors that came, came the following year, whichever were the two consecutive that I went, and like, paid to come see me. I couldn't believe it. So it was the first time that I felt like I was actually seeing proper followers like, in person. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Not just online. It's so different to have them come up to you and talk to you in person and get their book signed. It's just completely different. Everything's just online now. Everything. But you just can't beat that in person experience. 

Matt: That was probably a heavy level of validation for you too though. 

Lynette: It was. 

Matt: To have somebody show up, want to get their book signed by you, and say they flew or traveled for one of the most specific reasons, to see you.

Lynette: Yeah. The only other time I’ve felt that was in a supermarket one time, and this man was pointing to me saying, it's her, it's her, it's her. And his wife was saying, what are you talking about, what are you talking about? And I said, me? And he said, yes, yes, yes, you're Lynette Greenfield. And I said, oh, okay. And like, he was paying and he was just jumping up for joy and everything. And I just sort of wandered off and I didn't say, do you want an autograph or anything like that? Cause I – you know, like – I'm not that type of person to be like, oh yeah, it's me. But I just sort of waved and said, hi it’s me, and just went off, but it was incredible. 

Lauren: Wow. 

Matt: I would have ran the other direction. I would’ve been like, are you a federal agent? I'm not him. 

Lynette: It’s something to be proud of though, you know? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: Like, it's incredible. 

Lauren: Wow. 

Lynette: It just doesn't happen except in movies and stuff. 

[4:38] - On Writing

Matt: So real quick, before we get into any other questions, let's remind everybody, how many books have you written at this point? What's your total right now, for you? 

Lynette: Twenty-four. 

Matt: Twenty-four books. 

Lauren: Wow. 

Matt: I don't even have a kid that age yet. Close, twenty. Twenty-four books.

Lauren: That’s – I don't think you've been writing for twenty-four years, so you've done some in more than one in a year, right? 

Lynette: So I did four poetry titles when I was younger, and it was about sixteen years ago. I remember because my son's sixteen, so about sixteen years ago, is when my husband said you've to write a novel. I’ve tried, I’ve tried. I can’t do it. Then I went away and read a very popular, famous book that’s since been made into a movie. And it was written so badly. I couldn't believe it. I just could not believe it. Like, I couldn't even get through three chapters. And I'm like why am I doubting myself? If they can do it, I can definitely do it. So that gave me a little bit of confidence. And like, all night long I wrote the first chapter. And it was a romance novel so I was really, really nervous for my husband to read it. And he was like, it’s brilliant, I love it. Keep going, keep going. That’s how it actually started. But yeah, it came really late. And from there I’ve just never gone back to poetry. I just – it’s just addictive. 

Lauren: Clearly. Twenty-four books. I mean. 

Matt: That’s a lot. 

Lynette: There’s four children's books, one for each of my kids. And then there’s the nonfiction as well. I didn’t include the journal that comes with that, that’s not included in that. And the Write Publish Repeat, even though I don't love doing nonfiction, it's the most successful one.

Matt: What do you not like about doing nonfiction? 

Lynette: It was really draining. It was exciting at first to know that the motivation was sharing the knowledge, getting it all out there. It was real passion. It was sort of side by side with Limelight. Limelight I could do it in person and actually live it. But… It just wasn't creative. There was no creativity to it for me. 

Matt: It's a different kind of writing. Different kind of thinking. Yeah. 

Lynette: Yeah. You've to get all your facts right. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: You've got to think about your audience a little bit more. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Instead of just the flow of creativity. 

Lauren: So was your approach different for writing the nonfiction book?

Lynette: Definitely.

Lauren: Versus when you're writing fiction? 

Lynette: Yes. So all of my fiction books, you probably already know this, that I write the ending first. No matter what it's about, the ending always comes first. Because it starts with an idea about something. So at the moment I'm writing a novel about…I suffer migraines, really badly, like debilitating. I actually threw up on the way here because I was about to get one. I was in the hospital last weekend. It's like chronic pain. It's awful. But the book that I'm writing is fiction and the character, you don't find out till the end that the character is in a migraine. So the character is actually an abusive partner. You don't find out that it's actually a migraine until the end. So it feels like a person. So I know the ending already and you just build up to it. But Write Publish Repeat was all just structural and I had a little bit of a think about how I write, and the process of writing, and so it had to go in a certain way. And I – when you're doing fiction novels you let the feeling just take you a certain way and you don't know where it's going to go. Whereas it's the complete opposite…

Lauren: So you don't outline when you're writing fiction?

Lynette: Definitely not. 

Matt: Wow. 

Lynette: I feel like that limits me. Like, then I've got to stick to it. I'm a very goal-oriented person and if I set a goal for myself, I always tell my family that it's like having a boss in my head. If I say to myself I'm going to do something, I feel like I really have to do it. Otherwise I feel really disappointed in myself. So yeah, it's sticking to the facts, but then… Yeah, fiction is just…just see where it’ll go. 

Matt: So without an outline, do you set like writing goals? Do you say like, when you're working on a new project for yourself, not an author that you work with, do you set like, writing goals, like daily, weekly or monthly? Or do you just – 

Lynette: No.

Matt: Or do you just whatever hits you? 

Lynette: Well, you could call this a goal. I only have a certain amount of time in the day to write. Especially now that I have Limelight, that takes up the bulk of the day. So I've got four children, two of them are disabled, remember. 

Matt: That’s a lot. 

Lynette: I miss them a lot. It is a lot. Especially when I get migraines, and there's just a lot going on. I still pick my kids up from school. And I go about an hour early. So that hour in the car I don't connect to wifi, I don't look at my phone, don't do anything but write on my own stuff. So yeah, I give myself that hour a day. That is routine, that is, I guess, the same thing. 

Matt: Yeah, yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: But that's the only time that I can really justify for myself as a mum as well. That I'm doing something still. Okay, I’m picking up the kids. This is justified time. I find it really hard to say, okay well, no, we're not going to do this weekend with the kids – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette:  – and then spend time on writing. I can't, I feel guilty. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Doing that. 

Lauren: Are there parts of that routine that you keep very consistent? Do you listen to music while you're writing or do you handwrite or typing on a laptop or using a tablet? 

Lynette: I've always written on the laptop. I used to handwrite poetry, but with novels I’ve just, yeah, straight up at the top. That's really all –

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: All there is to it. Just sit down and just starting and seeing what happens. There's some days you can't, you know, you don’t feel like it. Some days it just doesn't sound right. Of course you'll be in the shower and you'll think of some great plot twist or, you know. The hardest thing that I find is finding character names because I've written so many books. Like, I’m running out of really good ones. So. 

Lauren: I've read zero books and I also consider naming characters to be the hardest part. 

Lynette: And it’s important to me – 

Matt: You should restate that. You've completed zero novels and you're running out of characters. Lauren: Wow, thank you. That's so nice of you to give me that validation. 

Matt: Once a day I need to give you a compliment. 

Lauren: Thanks. 

Matt: That's it. 

Lauren: Fair enough. 

Matt: Don't let your head get big.

Lauren: That's the one for the day. I'll take it. 

Matt: There you go. 

Lynette: Have you started? 

Lauren: Yeah, I have an MFA in creative writing. 

Lynette: Right. 

Lauren: That's what I went to school for. 

Lynette: Okay. 

Lauren: I've started a bunch. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: and I finished zero.

Lynette: Yeah. Well, they always say the hardest part is starting, but…yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: I think for us though too… Well, actually I shouldn't speak for you, like for me, I had several that were started and I feel like sometimes I go home from work and I have kids and I want to see my kids or do whatever. I don't know, the last thing I want to do is write. Even though I want to get these books done.  

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: And my stuff's all nonfiction. So it's all formalized, and I get – my biggest fear is that I've cited something wrong. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Or, you know, one of my citations is a blog article that by the time the book goes to print the article will no longer be…  

Lynette: Yeah.

Matt: You know what I mean, like stupid stuff, so. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: I don’t know.

Lynette: Just before I came here I updated Write Publish Repeat to include all AI stuff because, I mean, you might have seen my post – everything's changed. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: There's – half the stuff that I wrote, it's not – everything's still relevant, but it doesn't hit the same way – 

Matt: Right. 

Lynette: – as what is happening 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – at the moment. It's moving so fast. And fiction novels don't do that, they just stay the same. 

Matt: Yeah, that's the added pressure for nonfiction stuff. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Especially if you're writing something that is meant to help other people and provides tools and processes, yeah. 

Lynette: Every time something stresses me out, I always automatically think to myself, it's okay, I've got writing. In the same way as like, faith. It's okay, I've got this. And it makes me feel better knowing that I've got that to go to. It really, really does.

Matt: For me it's pizza or tacos. Tomato tomato, I mean, whatever gets you through. 

Lynette: For me it's vegemite. Have you tried vegemite? 

Matt: No. 

Lauren: No. 

Matt: No. 

Lynette: I should have brought some. 

Matt: I'm a very weird eater. I have the palate of like a ten year old. It's mostly pizza, chicken nuggets, and tacos. 

Lynette: Okay. 

Lauren: This is true. 

Lynette: I mean, at least you know what you like. 

Matt: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I've expanded a little. Like, I’ll eat avocados now.

Lauren: Proud of you.

Matt: That's an adult thing. 

Lauren: That's growth. 

Lynette: That is. 

Matt: Yeah. I take it as growth. Thank you. 

Lauren: You should. 

Lynette: Avocado toast.

Lauren: You should. 

Matt: When it comes to writing your books – again, and we'll get to Limelight for sure because I'm very interested in that but, your covers are always very unique. Do you design your covers or do you have a designer you work with? 

Lynette: I've learned a lot about covers. With my first couple of books, which I still have those old old old copies that I have, I really wanted to see this cover. Like, I had this idea in my mind about what I wanted the cover to be. And I look back on it now and I think, oh, that's awful, that's not gonna sell. Then when I got a book deal with Dymocks in Australia, I was talking to one of the women in store and she was looking at my book and she said, this is what we need to see. And she was pointing to all these other books saying, these are incredible stories, but nobody picks them up because of the covers. So it was a big insight for me to be able to see what the bookstores were frustrated with and expecting. So I just try and make them timeless. I just keep in mind, am I going to love this later? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Does it speak to all audiences, both genders, everyone in between? It's really hard to capture that. But I just keep an eye on what's trending. The amazing thing about Lulu is that you can change the cover at any point, which I have done with a lot of mine over time. Someone has said to me, I've noticed you've changed the covers. I was like, yeah, and just sort of waited to see what she said. She said, I think they're great. Because I thought she would have said, what are you doing? 

Matt: What are you doing? 

Lynette: It's just the way that I've liked to do it. I don’t wanna…I think it's great that you can update stuff. 

Lauren: Is there any rhyme or reason to when you decide to update the covers? Or is it just – 

Matt: That’s a good question. 

Lauren: – you saw something 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: – that you really go I'd like to update that, or something? 

Lynette: Usually it's because someone has said something. And you know, you shouldn't go by what other people say or think. But I do try and listen to like, feedback and take it as feedback, so. Initially, like, An Ounce of Expectation, the two romance novels, a lot of people asked what it was about. And what I was telling them what it was about was not what they expected at all because the cover was quite…it was quite raunchy. But that's not the message that I wanted to get across.

Lauren: Sure. 

Matt: Gotcha.

Lynette: You know? So, there's romance novels, but it wasn't like a typical romance novel. Because like you already know, my books are about things that have happened to me. With plot twists at the end and…yeah, I still wanted there to be a message in it, I didn’t just want it to be known for that, so I did change them. 

Matt: Just to clarify for everybody listening, Dymocks is a bookstore chain in Australia? 

Lynette: Yes. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lynette: The biggest that we have. And I wrote about it in the Write Publish Repeat. And one of my authors, Daniel Rosemond, he got Write Publish Repeat and he read through it and he took all my advice and he walked straight into a Barnes & Noble and did everything I told him to do in the book. And he got his book deal and he did his signing and he got a videographer and did the whole thing, and – yeah, I’m just so proud of him. And it was absolutely incredible to see someone follow those instructions and see it through and have faith that it was going to work. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: And it was just, yeah, it was full circle and just heartwarming.

[15:44] - On Limelight

Matt: This is a great time to then transition. Tell us a little bit about Limelight Publishing, how that came about, why you decided to start that. 

Lynette: Yeah, it came about because so many people asked me how I manage writing books and... 

Matt: Everything else?

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: Kids and all that. And I would always say you know, I'm using Lulu, it's just so...all the information's there, just – all you have to do is read. But it's amazing how many people don't want to… 

Matt: Preach. 

Lynette: Educate themselves. I mean, I realize mostly that the authors that I have, they want someone to walk them through it. They want someone to be there to say, this is what's gonna work. Like a nurturing sort of figure. So I went to a seminar that Ingram was having in Australia at the State Library. And I got talking to a few people and a couple of the people who were on the panel at the end of the seminar were talking about their publishing companies and how they got started. And I turned around and said to the person I was with, and said I can do that. And I went straight home that evening and registered it. I was like, I can do that. I didn't realize… I didn't realize that I could do it.

Matt: Sure. 

Lynette: Until I saw other people talking about their challenges and everything and their challenges were things that I'd already done.

Matt: Yeah.

Lynette: I'd already faced, I’d already been through. 

Matt: Many times over. 

Lynette: Yeah, like they were talking about covers and saying this cover is really great and I'm looking at it going, that's not gonna sell. You told that author to do that? Maybe you should have advised this way. For example, when I… when I do covers for an author. I don't just give a cover. I give at least ten, twenty, thirty – 

Lauren: Wow. 

Lynette: – different designs based on what they've asked. Not only because I love doing it, but you've got to broaden what they... they don't know what they don't know. So…

Matt: That's right. 

Lauren: Yeah, you definitely can see authors sometimes that like...they can't admit to themselves that the cover that they had in their head is not actually right for the book. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: And they're so committed to like – 

Lynette: There's that fine line between – 

Lauren: – seeing that. Yeah.

Lynette: – nurturing what they want to see on the cover. So I've got a book published called Raw to Radiant, and the cover is just a bare chicken. And she asked me to do something with the chicken. It was actually quite a challenge. It was just chicken on a table. 

Matt: You should’ve put tattoos on it. 

Lynette: Well, I did everything but that. And after about –

Matt: Next time. 

Lynette: – fifty covers, and I was super creative, it was really hard. And this was before all of the AI stuff, all of the, you know, it was really, really manual and really, really hands-on. And in the end, she came back and said, no, I think I just want the chicken. 

Matt: Ashley did one with a rooster on it recently. 

Lynette: But it's – you want them to, like, I know this looks so good but you know you've to respect what they want. 

Matt: Sure. 

Lynette: I was there, I was there with those first covers that I thought were really really great. But…yeah. 

Matt: When you were…so you went home that day and you were like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to set up a publishing company. 

Lynette: Yes. 

Matt: And in those initial days, weeks, what was the most challenging part about setting that business up?

Lynette: There were a few major challenges and a few mistakes, honestly. 

Matt: Well partially because in Australia everything is trying to kill you, right? 

Lynette Everything. 

Matt: Including like – 

Lynette: This size spider is small. 

Matt: Alligators, crocodiles. 

Lynette: It’s mad. Everything. 

Matt: Local governments. 

Lynette: Yeah, everything.

Lauren: You're just describing Florida. 

Matt: We have that in common. I grew up in Florida. Everything tries to kill you there too. What were some of the challenges of setting up your publishing company? 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening, we talk to them all the time too, saying like…they're probably like, I would love to do that. How would I get started? 

Lynette: Yeah. The biggest mistake that I've made, I’ll just start with that, is that I didn't research my name enough. I wanted to do something green and everything green I could think of was already taken as a registered business name. So I ended up on Limelight. I couldn’t believe that it was available. I went with that straight away. And I would advise anyone who's starting a business to research the name that you want. Because I get daily emails about this old Limelight company that existed that went out of business And they're either looking for a title or they're for money owed. It's not me, and I have to work through those emails daily. So that's something that I really wish that I’d taken more time to figure out. And I've built the brand so much that I don't want to go back. 

Matt: Yeah, it’d be detrimental, you can’t, yeah. 

Lynette: Absolutely. So that's one big thing. Second one for me was that it's Australian. So I had, especially in the beginning, building rapport with new authors so you go to my website and there's not really much to show, in the beginning, so. 

Matt: Right. 

Lynette: They were very nervous about that. 

Matt: So no social proof, testimonials, stuff like that it's hard to win new clients when you don't have any. 

Lynette: Yeah, that's exactly right. It was really really hard. So you just have to keep at it. Just have to keep going and just keep working to build it up. But in the same vein, it's like new authors when they sign up, they expect bestseller results immediately. You've got to explain that there's a lot of hard work and people want a reason to buy a book, and to go back and build who you are – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – on top of the book. But I love talking to authors and getting to know them and mentoring them and walking them through it and… Yeah, it just took a lot of time. 

Lauren: Is tempering their expectations kind of part of the overall job that you have to do with them? 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: Is it kind getting them to understand you're not going to be on the New York Times bestseller list tomorrow. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: You have some work to do. 

Lynette: I've learned over time to make that really clear upfront. Really, really clear. Because sometimes you forget that their expectations might be something you've never even thought about. 

Lauren: Right. 

Lynette: Because a lot of people still think that there's a contract. And that you're going to take – because I don't take a cut from royalties, and I think people just assume because they're paying for a service that they're going to get a lot back. So I can't just leave them hanging. So I've got to work through strategies for social media and the way things are, you know, and it's challenging. 

Matt: So, so Limelight does offer marketing as well as just straight up publishing services, editing, cover design, things like that? 

Lynette: Well, yeah. 

Matt: But you also offer launch and post-launch marketing? 

Lynette: Yes. Initially I included social media stuff. But it actually became too challenging and I’ve removed it. Because I would start with the influences I already have on board. But each author was starting to request specific influences that would maybe not want to read the book. So, you know, I've got all this list of them that the influencers would say, oh, I don't really want to read that. 

Matt: Yeah, yeah. 

Lynette: Like, it's their choice. So I couldn't guarantee that to my customers. So I just took it off. It's not something I can guarantee so I can't.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: I'm not going to promise that. But the book signing and marketing materials is always really, really good, they love that. It's a really great way to encourage them to get out and you know…

[23:16] - On AI in Publishing

Matt: We know that marketing is always a huge pain point for indie authors. Are there other pain points that you see consistently with the clients that you take on that you just know like, as you take them on like, oh yeah, it's going to be these three things, you know, culminating in marketing? Or is it kind of varied depending on who they are?

Lynette: It’s too varied. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: Everyone’s all over the place, especially because of online, because of social media, because of AI and… I think one of the hardest things that I'm coming into, which is what I'm really excited about being at this expo for, is the AI stuff. So my editor has recently come and… He's changed the tone halfway through the book. I'm not sure if he's using AI, but it's completely changed. So I think I reached out to you and asked you at some point the framework around what do I do here? How do I monitor this? I don't know what to do. So I'm really interested in hearing what people have to say over the next couple of days. But I can only take their word for it. Like, how do we know that they’re not…? And I’m really scared, honestly I feel really disheartened with my own writing. My son said the same thing at school, he said all my friends are using AI. And they're not allowed to but I know that they do. And it just makes him feel like he doesn't want to do the work and it's really really scary.

Matt: For us and for me and in general, like what we're seeing at a much larger scale is the same thing, first of all. So validation, like, people are still feeling the way you are. Especially in the position you're in where you're trying to understand, like I've got a client who maybe this client says they wrote every bit of this, but you know, the editor is recognizing there are patterns just here now that are lining up a little bit more with ChatGPT versus –

Lynette: Right. 

Matt: – what maybe the first half of the book sounded like. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Or, you know, there's a ton of em dashes everywhere, which is very characteristic of ChatGPT, or things like that. And I think that as a whole in the industry, right now, I think the stance is that it's okay to use AI for aspects of your writing. Like, I use it for outlining religiously, because I can't buy an outline to save my life. But I also can't start a – I can't start a project without an outline. I'm just outline driven. 

Lynette: Yeah.

Matt: Or I'll be all over the place. I tell people all the time, I use it for outlining all the time. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: It's great for that. If I get stuck on something, I will take what I wrote, I will dump it into MattGPT, which is my custom GPT that Paul built for me, so shout out to Paul, and it'll spit back out like, you know, an altered version of that where it'll help me get unstuck. And I might use that in its entirety or I might not, but if I'm using anything in what I'm writing that's from AI and I did not alter it, I'll just say it. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: In the book, like, this book is a culmination of my writing –

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: – and some AI. And I think as long as you're upfront about it – 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: I don’t think most people have a real issue with it. Especially if your book is adding value. Whether that value is in a how-to, in an instructional, conceptual type of work or entertainment, pure fiction. Honestly, if I read a book – I just finished a book, Horror Movie by Paul Tremblay. It was a great book. I wouldn't care if half that book was written by AI.

Lynette: Really?

Matt: I enjoyed the book. I don't care. 

Lynette: See, I think with fiction is where I feel like it's…not a problem, but I feel frustrated with it. Because I've spent so many years learning how to do it, learning how to write fiction and finding my voice and my rhythm. And then I feel like somebody can just wake up and say, I always wanted to write a book and just out it comes and then it's popular and I don't know. But they have to live with themselves knowing that they didn’t write it. 

Matt: It's a different kind of person and it's a different kind of book. Because anybody that's written or read any content that's come out of AI that wasn't rewritten or re-consepitalized, you can spot it immediately. 

Lynette: But it’s only going to improve though, that's gonna disappear eventually.

Matt: To a degree. 

Lauren: And also, you can spot it right away. And that's one of the things – because I've had that too, where I've had friends tell me like, oh yeah, like it's gonna be really cool. If you can think of a book idea, you can just ask ChatGPT to write it for you. And they'll say that to my face.

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: And it doesn't even occur to them why I, as somebody who has spent twenty years professionally and personally – 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: – honing my craft of writing, would be upset by that. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: And like, it wouldn't – cause to them, it's just like, this is a cool new tool to play with. 

Lynette: Because that's how it's marketed.

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: That it's there to help us with the things that we want to do that might find challenging. 

Lauren: Right, right. 

Matt: Let me reframe that for you then. So, yes I can spot writing that was done with ChatGPT and Claude or Perplexity and I think a lot of people can, probably more than you think. It's becoming very discernible, like, which is what. But let me reframe this. People will absolutely be able to tell when it's something that you wrote versus something ChatGPT wrote. 

Lynette: Yeah, that’s true.

Matt: For somebody who's been writing as long as you have, for somebody who's about to complete something soon, I'm sure of it. 

Lauren: Any day now. 

Matt: It is a lot more obvious when it was written in totality by a human, especially a human that has some talent, skill, or some built-in experience. So one way or the other, I think it is pretty discernible to either see that it was written by AI or partially written by AI versus, well, this was clearly written by a human that has some skill in writing.

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Or if somebody is already a fan of yours and has, you know, maybe they've read your last five books, they're going to know immediately –  

Lynette: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: – if you wrote that next one or not, so. However you choose to look at it, and again, I completely understand where you're coming from. I think that's where most people are at right now. I think my point in all of that was from the business side of it, you as the person who owns and runs Limelight Publishing, if you have an author who is clearly using an AI tool to help with their writing, or write all of it, at the end of the day, like you said, they chose to do that. Whatever that outcome is, that was their choice. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: And as long as they're, I think – and I think this is where the industry has to step in – as long as they're being honest about the fact that I used AI to write this, or I used AI to help me write this book.

Lynette: Yeah.

Matt: It is what it is. And if people choose to accept that and enjoy it, great. And if not, okay. 

Lynette: So I have a form that I send that gets filled in, you know, the details and what they want to see in the cover and all the way down to what paper and – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – print type they want to have in there. So we get all that sorted very early on. And I have included a little section that says if they've used it at a percentage, and just left a little space. And a couple of people have said they just used it to reference. So people have been disclosing whether they have been using it or not. And I guess the beauty of already having written is that yeah, people will know how you write and will appreciate that. I just have to figure out more ways to embrace it within Limelight. That part of it’s all…feels really new to me. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: I think you touched on this earlier. Embrace is a strong word. You know, you don't have to embrace it. I think because you're serving customers, right, you have these clients that you're working with. If they choose to embrace it, I think it's just you finding a way to help them take it to market.

Lynette: Yeah.

Matt: In a way that reflects not only them as an author, creator – 

Lynette: Yeah. That’s true.

Matt: – but you as a brand. 

Lynette: Cause I, my heart's it so much that I do get to that where sometimes I need to take a step back and say… Cause the Lulu platform is, that's what's so good about it. You can go in and once it's been handed over, they can change whatever they want. But at the end of the day, part of the reason why I don't take royalties is so that I can hand everything over to the customer. 

Matt: That's right. 

Lynette: And then they can go from there armed with all the information that they need. They can be successful if they want to be, no matter how much – 

Matt: That's right. 

Lynette: – they put into it. 

Matt: You've now given them the tools. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: It's a direct handoff. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: That's the beauty of it. 

Lynette: And then when I see someone create a cover that they want and it's just on AI and it's obvious. It's very hard for me to...like I said my heart’s just in it, and I just want to grab them and shake them – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: But some people aren't as creative. And they just, they want to get their story out and that's the whole point of it. And – 

Matt: Yeah. Your job is to help them to deliver their message and be successful in whatever way success translates for them. 

[31:30] - On Helping Authors Bring Their Stories to Life

Lynette: I get really close to my – most of my clients. I have really, really good relationships with a lot of them, some of them turn into friends. Because they're handing over something so personal, even if it is nonfiction, they nine times out of ten, they tell me a lot about their own lives. I guess back in the day, that's how maybe it worked with publishers, when you walked in with your book and you saw them face to face and you talked about the book and everything. It still feels like that for me, but it's just online. I also put so much effort in as well because I'm Australian. And so one of the first questions I always get is, is this the US, is this worldwide? I’m not sure… And if you read some of my reviews, some of them say, especially being Australian, and I wasn't sure, but it ended up being fine and fantastic. And as always that's a bit of a challenge, but always one I’ve overcome. 

Lauren: So do you work with clients all over the place, not just specifically in Australia? 

Lynette: Yeah. Everywhere, yeah. 

Lauren: And is it a range? I know you work with a range of different genres. You've published or you've helped people publish fiction, nonfiction, children's books – 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: – adult, everything. Are you generally working with people that are first time authors or people that have been writing for a while or kind of all over the place? 

Lynette: I prioritize people with challenges. So disabilities…and I always use a couple as examples. I had a client who was blind. And so that was a very big challenge, but it's just, it was his dream to get it done. He had a carer so we would go back and forth and she would read it to him. That took a really long time and it was absolutely incredible to have done. A couple of my authors are illiterate and they've got friends helping them. And I just, I really try and go that extra mile. And it's what I've won awards for, back home. I don't turn many people away. There are some books that I have said no to. Mostly because they don't meet the guidelines and it wouldn't get published anyway. Like, I think Amazon would reject it. Other than that, I publish – yeah, all types. 

Lauren: How do your clients find you?

Matt: That's what I was about to say. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: How do you promote Limelight? How are you acquiring new authors? 

Lynette: I could not believe this, and I was dying to tell you this. That in the past six months, almost every single client that I've had has told me that they found me by asking ChatGPT what publisher – I kid you not. 

Lauren: Really? 

Lynette: I'll send you the emails. It is like…

Lauren: Wow.

Lynette: It just blew my mind. I couldn’t believe it. 

Lauren: Wow. Okay. 

Lynette: Yeah. I mean, I have a sticker on my car. I'm doing all those old school things and I have a business card and things like that, but people are finding me through… Yeah. 

Matt: So mostly organic search, it sounds like. 

Lynette: Online. 

Matt: Like, so you're not really doing a lot or any paid digital marketing?

Lynette: I never have. No. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lynette: I never have. 

Matt: Yeah. I, just out of curiosity. 

Lynette: Yeah? 

Matt: Do you ask – so the ones that are finding you through ChatGPT or you know, generative search, are you asking them like what their string of words were that they typed in? 

Lynette: I did ask one and she said that she asked what was most trusted and genuine. So that's what she told me about that. I thought that was really – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – really good compliment. 

Lauren: Yeah, that’s great. 

Lynette: But that is a good question to ask going forward with the new ones, that would be interesting to know. 

Matt: How many authors or projects do you have going at a given time, on average?

Lynette: At the moment, there's about...anywhere from about twenty to forty. 

Matt: Wow.

Lauren: When do you sleep? 

Matt: Wow. 

Lynette: Yeah, it’s manageable. 

Lauren: Wow. 

Lynette: It is, because they don't just come up like, you know, you'll get the authors that want everything done right now. I've got a couple of people who signed up a year ago and they're still not sure what's happening with it. They've got their covers and they're still are undecided. And then I've got clients who have like ten books with me and they'll just pay for all the ten books ready to go. Have that much trust that, you know. 

Lauren: So, so authors can come to you without a finished draft? Like do you, where, where in their writing process do they contract with you? 

Matt: What’s your criteria for submission? 

Lynette: I encourage having had it edited. Because… I say that because the editing process can be brutal. 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: And there's a really, really fine line, as you know, between advising somebody about something and something just being completely wrong. 

Matt: Yeah.

Lynette: I do encourage that, then we have editors as well. 

Matt: Okay, so you do provide editing. Do you provide a full suite of it, the copy editing and developmental editing? Or do you try to just really focus on copyediting – 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: – and hope that they've come to you with something that's developmentally and structurally sound? 

Lynette: Well, part of what I'm really proud of with Limelight is that the people that I have on board, so my small team, work independently. So I've got two editors, two illustrators, a social media marketer, and then IT. And the two editors, they charge their own rate, and they work independently. And it goes by the manuscript. Because I've sat with one of the editors before and I can see where she's coming from. Sometimes you can turn a book down because of the challenges… 

Matt: Yeah

Lynette: That the manuscript can have. But generally no, we don’t turn much away. I don't like disappointing customers. I want to be transparent, I want to be honest. I don't ever want to say, I mean, this is the most incredible book. It's gonna sell, it's gonna – I won't do that. But at the same time, everybody's stories are amazing. Everybody's books are incredible. Editing can only improve their work.

Matt: Yeah, for sure.

Lynette: It's vital to have it done. Always advise it. 

Lauren: I should have asked this question maybe forty-five minutes ago, but how long have you had Limelight? When did you launch Limelight? 

Lynette: 2017.

Matt: Yeah, I was going to say, I thought you had it last time you were in New York. 2018. 

Lynette: I might have just been starting it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: But it wasn't really anything. 

Matt: Definitely talked about it. Are you glad that you did Limelight? Do you ever think like, man, I wish I was still just focusing on my stuff only? 

Lynette: I am glad. When I get the clients who are not very nice, and I wish I’d seen that before they signed on. Because then I would have said you're probably not the right fit and given them some other direction. But knowing that if there is a client that is a real challenge, sometimes I get an apology, sometimes I've had it before. You know, I'm really sorry things started out that way and I'm really glad things have sort of… I try and persist there. But also they're not with me forever as well. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: So I just try and just give that positive experience in hopes that they'll look back on it and think, well, you know, that was actually really good. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: And I should have not acted that way. But it's emotional though, like you're handing over work. And I try and put myself in that position, and it's hard not to be emotional. Sometimes maybe it might come across like that in an email, maybe I'm reading it wrong, you know?

Matt: And emails are hard to understand context anyway, so. 

Lynette: They are. So you just have to be open and transparent with information. The more information they have, the more confident they're to be to make decisions when they're not sure about anything. Like, Lulu University is right there. And the knowledge base is right there. Everything is right there. And I actually, when I – at the end of the publishing experience, when they get their final book and everything, I have this folder that they get printed out and little koala and everything that they get. This pack that gets sent – 

Matt: No vegemite? A little packet of Vegemite? 

Lynette: We used to be able to send it but we can't anymore. It's just really nice to be able to hand them that pack and end it on a positive note. 

Lauren: It sounds like a very rewarding, as much as it is like probably an insanely time consuming…

Lynette: Yeah because, like. 

Lauren: Career to have, I guess. 

Lynette: I'll look at this book, I'll get this book and you know, I'll be good to go. And then I’ll think to myself ugh, I can’t be bothered doing this. I can’t be bothered working today, I'm so tired. The moment I open the laptop and start typing, something just takes over. I love it, I love what I do, love... My husband just looks at me and I’m like, you know, you could do this. You’d love it. And he's like, I can't work with Word, I can't, I can't. It is my worst nightmare. For me, just working on a Word document in itself, it's just, I just love it. I don't know what it is. I don't know, it's so satisfying. And I really love when an author says be creative, show me what you got, you know? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Basically because it's not just a title and a paragraph, there's so much more that you can do. So I love it when I'm able to do a bit more. 

Matt: You just mentioned something about the title. How in-depth do you actually go with your authors? Are you with them sometimes at the beginning of like, you've got a manuscript but no title. You work through titles with them and – 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: That's... 

Lynette: Yeah, some people don't have a title and they'll ask for suggestions. That happens more often than not, which is unusual for me because I've always got a title in mind. It's almost right there with the ending for me. But to me that just says that they recognise the importance of a title. So I appreciate the fact that they're asking for advice and that's how I take everything. I've had many scripts come to my PO box half written and wanting help. And I'll get on Zoom calls. I don't do a lot of Zoom calls but only if I really, really, really feel like they're stuck or they really need help or they really don't understand something. Something's not going right, and we'll share the screen and work through it. But any which way that I can. Like, the guidelines that I have with what we do, are just guidelines. I'll always try and do more where I can. And I'm really excited because Thomas Wiatt is a long-term client of mine. And he has, I think it's up to ten books. 

Matt: Wow. 

Lynette: So I think they're all nonfiction, and they're all about his family, his history. One of his books has actually been made, The Hook, it's called, has been made into a board game. And it's in the catalogue that I have. I'm meeting him for the first time when I go to New York. 

Matt: Oh, that’ll be cool. 

Lynette: After this, I'm meeting him for lunch and he actually signed another book just before I came here. So I said, look, I'm gonna work on it because I'm working all the way through this. I will send it to you just before I meet you so you've got it and we can sit down together and make notes. And I'm so thrilled to be able to actually meet him in person. 

Lauren: That’s awesome. 

Matt: What percentage of your clients, if you had to estimate, are within Australia and then outside of Australia?

Lynette: Mostly US. I'd say probably maybe 30% Australian. The rest would be US, England, and African countries. But mostly US. 

Matt: Do you, side note, speaking of getting to meet your authors, do you have any plans of BookCon 2026? You know they're bringing back? 

Lynette: No, I didn’t know. Are you kidding me? 

Lauren: Yep. It’s going to be in April. 

Matt: Not BEA, but BookCon. 

Lynette: Are you kidding me? 

Matt: No, 2026. 

Lynette: I was so upset when they stopped. 

Lauren: I know. 

Lynette: Yeah, I'm there. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lynette: I'm definitely there. That's amazing. 

Matt: We'll have to team up. 

Lynette: When did they announce that, recently? 

Matt: About two months ago. 

Lauren: Yeah.

Lynette: Really?

Matt: Yeah. But it was kind of quiet and weird how they announced it. 

Lynette: I stopped checking the website. 

Matt: It's only social media. 

Lynette: It's such an amazing experience. 

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. 

Matt: Well BookCon was even cooler, because it was more geared towards fans. BEA was the more industry part, which was cool in its own way to a degree, but it also just a lot of industry bullshit and stuff that – oh, do we have to edit that out? 

Lynette: They had a lot of famous people come in as well, which was really exciting for the fans. 

Matt: Yeah, at the end, for the fan stuff, yeah. 

Lynette: Yeah.

Matt: So I think having BookCon back will be really cool. I think they had no choice too, with the popularity of BookTok –

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: – and all the other stuff that's going on in books. 

Lynette: Definitely. It'll be interesting to see how they incorporate all of these things – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – into what they do. 

Lauren: Yeah, for sure. I’m excited to see how it goes. 

[44:22] - On Limelight’s New Print Catalogue

Matt: So you made mention of this catalog. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: We got to see it before we started filming. This is really cool. We've seen book catalogs for traditional publishers and other hybrid publishers too. It's just kind of like whatever, you know what I mean? They’re just little like, ten, twelve page, saddle stitch, stapled, like cheap newsprint. This thing is pretty thick –

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: – and really well laid out. What was the reasoning  for doing this? 

Lynette: I started it because I kept getting emails asking do you have a catalogue? And I was like…no? 

Matt: From authors or like retailers? 

Lynette: Both. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lynette: And I would say, here's the website.  

Matt: Right. 

Lynette: But they actually wanted a physical catalogue. I remember somebody said they wanted it for somebody else to look through. And I just sort of imagined maybe someone who was old school didn't really want to look through the website. Maybe they wanted to actually hold it in their hands and have a look. So when I knew I was coming here, I thought I've got to put everything together. Because I'm so proud of it. It starts with how we came to be, the partnership that we have, and how amazing you guys are, like I always say. And then most of the books, obviously there's ones that are anonymous even though I do mention them and thank them. And then a whole bunch of interviews. With Thomas, who I’m meeting, there's an interview with him. And with Daniel, who got the book deal at Barnes & Noble, and he actually contributed a piece. His story is absolutely incredible. Like, he won a lawsuit and it was just, his story is amazing and the book is incredible. So yeah, I just wanted to give my authors as well a chance to tell a little bit more about – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – their books. In hope that it not only showcases what we do, but encourages other authors to… 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: – see what can be done.

Matt: It's a great acquisition tool or lead magnet, I think. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: The way that it's laid out and structured. 

Lauren: Yeah, and a great way to… I don’t want to say humanize the authors, because they're doing that.  

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: But to remind people that there's a person behind these books. 

Lynette: Yeah. And to see what happens afterwards. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: Because in a way it does hurt the heart a little bit when you publish a book and then that's it. And you sort of sit back…It's like having a baby, like everyone's doting over you and then you've had the baby and then everyone's just off doing their own thing and no one's giving up their seat for you, and are you okay, are things alright, and don’t lift that, and so on? Sort of that feeling, I think. And so many of my authors have used their books in different ways for different reasons, and those stories are fascinating and that's what I encourage them to talk about online. They want to talk about it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: So, the book is there but you're a human, you're a person and people will buy your book if they know about you. And it is hard, because I really struggle with social media. Because I constantly kept thinking, and I probably even said it in one of my posts, like, nobody wants to know what I’m doing day in and day out. 

Matt: That’s what you think. 

Lynette: I’m just a normal person going...doing normal things like –

Matt: That guy you into –

Lauren: Yeah, I was going to say – 

Matt: That guy you ran into at the grocery store – 

Lauren: And then you get a fan in the grocery store. 

Lynette: But yeah, people do really want to know. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: It’s just strange to me. 

Matt: Every author struggles with exactly what you just said. Every human does. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: I mean, the last thing I want to do is post on social media. I hate it. 

Lynette: Yeah.

Matt: But here we are. 

Lynette: Because I feel like… if I would have written about my life in a book, but instead I write fiction, because I want the world to seem different. Because this one's just…

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: Workin' and livin…

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: And traveling.  

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: But you do take for granted sometimes and forget that there are those incredible moments and the journey that the book takes can change people's lives. I've even had a proposal in a book and she said yes. So the last page, that was actually, yeah, that was amazing. So yeah, it's opening everything up. And that's what I want Limelight to be. I want it to be a place that people can go. It's not just about publishing. There are so many reasons why you can publish a book. And I say that in Write Publish Repeat. There's so many reasons. Like, if you're having an argument with someone and you just want to tell your side of it, write a book about it. 

Matt: Sure. 

Lynette: Create those characters and give you the ending that you want. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: There are so many reasons to write. If you're a professional in something and you know you love this craft. Share it.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: I think people don't have enough confidence and I want to give them that. I want to be able to say, like, with this Lulu platform and with my help, you’re good to go and you can do it.

Matt: Yeah, that's great. 

[48:59] - On the Future of Publishing

Matt: We'll go ahead and wrap it up a little here, but what we would love to hear from you is, you know, kind of the way you're looking at things from a forward perspective. What do you think the future of publishing looks like, or will look like, not just for you, but in general? 

Lynette: I'm in a space where I feel really scared and disheartened, to be honest. I'm the type of person who at the hotel I'm staying at, the person at the front desk said, oh I love your perfume, it smells really nice. Normally people would not disclose what it is, but immediately I just tell them, it's Eternity, it's this. People are really closed off about information that is not, like – there's no reason to hide it, you know? 

Lauren: No one needs to gatekeep everything. 

Lynette: Yeah.

Lauren: Yeah. 

Lynette: So transparency with publishing is the key thing with me. And being sensitive and encouraging, but just being realistic and honest about stuff as well. I almost wish that we were back in the day. I love the idea of an author coming in with a manuscript. I don't like the idea of typing it all out, but maybe that’s how you have to do it. But that author to publisher relationship, I mean talking all through it makes me realise that that's probably like the fundamental love that I have for the company. I love the work, I love the physical work, but I love the relationships probably more than anything. Because I know how it feels to publish a book. I know what that feeling is like. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: And if I could give it or bottle it, give it to everybody, I would. It's an amazing feeling. I can't envision what things are going to be like in the future, mostly because of how quickly things are changing. I just really, really hope that people make books because they really love the subject or the story that they're trying to talk about, not just for the sake of it, but it's my biggest fear. Because it's not about earning money to me, it never has been. Otherwise I would charge double what I charge, like everybody else does. I've done books for free and I've really gone, like I've been out of pocket quite a lot for some people. But that matters not to me, it's about getting into that…whatever they envision, however I can, I will do it. I just hope more people do the same thing, for more. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: I just don't understand why people don't use Lulu. I don't understand it, it's right there. And I encourage all of my authors that they don't have to go through me. I'm helping you to do it and I'm walking with you. But with your next book, go have a look. You are – you are capable. And some people just really like to have that person with at them. 

Matt: That’s right, yeah. 

Lynette: Some people realise that they can. Like, oh wow, okay. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: And so I worked within their accounts, but I send out proofs from a Limelight one. And sometimes during the process, they'll realise as well. So it's introducing them to the platform. Introducing them to things that they can do that they didn't realize that they could. Yeah, or just walking with them. 

Matt: I think part of looking forward to the future, I think part of what you're saying will materialize more often, you know? Where people will understand as the technology gets better, as the tools get better, as AI makes certain things easier for people to do, whether that's administrative tasks or otherwise, like. I think people will, more and more, find they can do on their own, with whatever guided help they get from the tools. But I think right now we're still in an era, luckily for you and many others, where people just want somebody to help them through it. It does seem daunting for a lot of people, regardless of what the content is. No matter what my team creates in the way of marketing or education, it doesn't matter. Like you said, there's just gonna be people where that doesn't make any sense to them. But a human can sit down with them.

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: And go right through the exact same thing and it clicks and they go, okay, it's a comfortable thing. 

Lynette: How do you think that it's going to change?

Matt: I think it'll change in that way, to a degree. I think again, with tools and technology, we're already seeing it. There's a lot more content being put out in the world. It's not always good content. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: But I think you have two buckets of people that are going to create books. They're either creating it because they see a fast buck in it and those are the ones that are using AI for everything and they're just relying solely on tools, no creative talent or abilities. Or even a clear sort of like, here's a gap in the market that I want to fill with this content. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: It's just like, Oh, I have all these tools. Now I can just spin off books every day and make money off of it. 

Lynette: Yeah, yeah. 

Matt: And then you're to have this bucket of people like you and a lot of the others where it's: I have something to say, or I have an expertise that I want to share, or I want to create this book, like a catalog or something like that, to further my business or my brand. And I'm going to put some care into it. And so you have those two buckets of people. In the middle you have this now sort of burgeoning technology that's coming into play with print-on-demand, AI, all these other tool sets, whether that's Lulu or somebody else. And you're going to have this culmination of people meeting in the middle. But ultimately, I think, yes, publishing will change in the future, but a lot of it will stay the same. I think the stuff that's going to stay the same is the stuff we want to stay the same. 

Lynette: It's just keeping up with what changes. 

Matt: It's just going to make our jobs easier. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Your job, my job, our jobs. 

Lynette: But then there’s like, the Amazon cliff. What gets, you know – 

Matt: That’ll never changed. 

Lynette: – released by the author gets shown because it's being released so often. Which I don't...that’s not fair. 

Lauren: I'm hopeful that as long as there are still people like you in the industry that are passionate about it and are passionate about being authentic and keeping that level of humanity in it, then we'll always have that. We'll never go too far off the deep end –

Lynette: Yeah.

Lauren: – into exclusively generated content.

Lynette: I hope so.

Lauren: Or just like a bunch of trash. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: Like, burying everything good under it. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Lauren: Because I think that the humanity and the passion will still rise to the top. 

Lynette: Yeah. People still buy paintings, right? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: And if someone was to say oh AI did it, would they still buy it? People still love the painting, they still love – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lynette: It's a lot to think about, lots to take in, but I just got to see where it goes and adjust with it and yeah, there'll always be a space, I hope, for human to human – 

Matt: Undoubtedly. 

Lauren: I think so. 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah, I mean. 

Lynette: That's the best kind of publishing 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt:You brought up a really good sort of parallel, art.

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: I mean, people still go to museums, they still look at things that were painted over a hundred, two hundred, three years ago. There's always –  

Lynette: There's a human need for it, isn’t there?  

Matt: That's right. Yeah. The more AI and technology that comes out though, the more loneliness there is in the world – 

Lynette: Yeah. 

Matt: There’s that need to connect with people. I think nothing really does that as well as a book, you know?

Lynette: I agree.

[55:55] - Wrap Up

Matt: I think the most important question is, what do your bracelets say today? 

Lauren: Oh! One of them says Read in Peace. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: One of them says Professional Yapper. And the last one says Bready For It. 

Matt: What does that mean? Never mind.

Lynette: What made you think of it? 

Matt: I don't want to know. 

Lauren: It's from... 

Matt: It's usually Taylor Swift. 

Lynette: It's a Taylor Swift quote. 

Lynette: Right. Okay. 

Lauren: It's a sourdough bread pun. She has a song called Ready For It. So she named one of her breads, Bready For It. 

Matt: I’m sorry you had to witness this. 

Lauren: Aren't you glad you spend time with me?

Matt: On that note, my time with you is coming to an end right now. Thankfully. 

Lauren: Fair. 

Matt: Lynette, thank you for joining us. That was a lot of fun.

Lauren: It was incredible. 

Matt: It was very interesting to hear about your journey. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Anything you want to say to anybody before we sign off here? You want to say hi to those four amazing kids, or anybody else? 

Lynette: Yes, Tyler, Tyson, Jackson, and Baby Grace. I miss them a lot. But mostly, just want to thank the authors. Because like the effort that I put in, they put in just as much. 

Matt: Sure. 

Lynette: If not more. Every single one of them it’s…it’s their heart on the line, and they trust me with it. They've chosen me. After having talked to me, they've made that decision to go for it. And then come back. Like, I don't take that for granted at all. So, we wouldn't be, you know, like the people that win awards like, I wouldn't be here without my fans. Like, it's the same thing. I would not be here if people didn't trust me. And I wouldn't be Limelight if it weren't for you guys. I just wouldn't be, because I can't imagine doing it any other way. And if I have any issues, like you guys are just there. I know it's old, I keep praising, I keep, you know, saying it over and over, but it's just incredible to have you guys behind me. You've always supported me, not only as an author, but when I moved into this space as a publisher. And you've always just been so encouraging of anything that I wanted to do or try, any mistakes that I've made, anything I wanted to know or learn or do. Again, it's just transparency and openness and encouragement. 

Matt: Good.

Lynette: So thank you for that. 

Lauren: Thank you. 

Matt: All right. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Well, like and subscribe. 

Lauren: Please do. 

Matt: Give us a review. 

Lauren: If you want to learn more about Lynette or Limelight Publishing, check out the show notes. I'll make sure we've got all the stuff linked in the show notes. 

Lynette: Awesome. 

Lauren: And you can always reach out to us or her to learn more. 

Lynette: Well, I am on your website. 

Matt: That's right. 

Lauren: Yes, you are.

Lynette: Yes. 

Lauren: Absolutely. If you don't have any questions, you can always come back next week and listen to whatever it is we're going to talk about then. 

Matt: It won't be Taylor Swift bread references, I can promise you that. 

Lauren: That's what you think. 

Matt: Goodbye everybody. 

Lauren: Thanks for listening, everyone.