Matt: Hello and welcome to episode 79 of Publish & Prosper. Before I forget, what do your bracelets say? 

Lauren: One of them says Read in Peace. One of them says Have A Magical Day. And one of them says Ruin Everything. 

Matt: Have A Magical Day by Reading in Peace, but make sure you Ruin Everything? 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: Interesting. 

Lauren: Yep. If it helps–you're not going to like it because it’s a Taylor Swift reference, but the reference is, the full lyric is ‘she had a marvelous time ruining everything.’ 

Matt: Okay. All right. Episode 79, right? 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: And today we are doing something different. And the hope is that we do more of these. Ultimately, we wanted to do a series of creator spotlights. Kind of like case studies. So not necessarily an interview per se, but more like a verbal visual case study on… On a particular creator, their publishing journey for a particular book, and some of the ins and outs, and hopefully it provides value to the few people who are listening. So today's creator spotlight is on one of our favorite people. His name is Justin Moore and we did reference Justin back in episode 76 when we were talking about partnerships. He is a sponsorship coach. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: So different than partnerships. He's probably one of the best out there at it. And he recently published his book at the beginning of this year and it's done extremely well. So we wanted to use him as our first creator spotlight because Justin really has, I think, embodied all of the things that we've talked about in the last 78 episodes and just done it really, really well. Lauren has his book nicely propped up here, like this is a home shopping channel or something. For those of you that are not watching, you’re only listening, there is a copy of his book on a book stand on the table between Lauren and I. 

Lauren: His book, which is called Sponsor Magnet, for those of you not watching, or for those of you that do not have eagle eyes on your YouTube screen right now, How to Attract, Price, and Execute Your Dream Brand Partnerships. And we've actually referenced Justin probably four or five times, if not more than that, in various episodes. We've talked about him for the work that he's done with his pre-launch marketing and his post-launch marketing. He's done a lot of public facing, sharing the details of his book sales and sharing different parts of his publishing journey. 

Matt: He's been very public about the book. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: And very public about the fact that he was writing a book. He just didn't write the book in public, but yeah – 

Lauren: Right.

Matt: – I think what you're saying is the coolest part, just because all the other aspects of the book, whether it's the marketing, the sales, the business behind it, he's been very public about. 

Lauren: Yes. So we've definitely – you've heard his name before, if you've listened to more than like five of our episodes. Because we definitely shouted him out before. And so we thought maybe we would kind of tie it all together and do a deep dive into exactly how he's gone about this and how he's found some really cool success with the publishing. 

Matt: Yeah. He even turned this book into an actual in-person event called Sponsor Games.

Lauren: Yeah. Which you went to. 

Matt: I did go to that. It was really cool. I wasn't sure what to expect, by the way, but it was really cool. And unlike any other event I'd been to. He's just done so much with this book. It's pretty impressive. So why don't we jump in? 

Lauren: Yeah. So just for context and clarity, we are not – this is not like a live interview episode. He's not going to be joining us on air as we're recording this episode, but I did send him a list of interview questions and he sent me back a very thorough and well done video answering all of my questions. It was so helpful.

Matt: Which is also typical Justin. 

Lauren: It was exactly what I could have wanted or needed. 

Matt: If you ask him for X, he'll give you X, Y, and Z. 

Lauren: It was, it was great. 

[4:28]

Matt: Yeah. So Justin, Justin's done many a number of things. We first met Justin while he was in full swing with his current creator business called Creator Wizard. He's a full-time content entrepreneur. He's a sponsorship coach first and foremost. Most of his content is obviously around helping other creators land beneficial sponsorships for their content, their channels, whatever it is they're doing. But he's been around for quite some time. I think his journey started on YouTube. He's been a full-time creator since 2014-ish. So, you know, a little over eleven years doing this full-time, no other job. But yeah, I think he realized his strength was sponsorships and that's where he's kind of doubled down. So Creator Wizard is his, his business, his brand. You can find that anywhere, you know, YouTube, Instagram, you name it.

Lauren: Including in the show notes for this episode. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I will definitely link to that. 

Matt: Yep, yeah. 

Lauren: But he really has like, kind of cast a wide net with that business and that was kind of the journey that he talked through, what led him to publishing a book? 

—

Justin: So when I first started educating creators around sponsorship strategy, I started making YouTube videos. Because that's – I consider myself a YouTuber first and foremost, I learned from watching YouTube videos just personally, and so I was like that's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna make videos. But very quickly, people said, oh, I love the things, the frameworks, that you're talking about. I would love to read more about this. And so I said, okay, let me take the transcripts from the YouTube video and make a blog, make a website. And so that was the first iteration that I did. And then people said, I love these frameworks and reading about this, but I'm not going to visit your site all the time. Can you send me these to my inbox? I said, okay, let me make a newsletter. And then people said, oh, I love getting your newsletter, but I actually want to learn and read more about this on a commute because I'm not a full-time creator yet. And so I said, okay, let me make a podcast, right? And then a lot of people were like, oh, I would love–I don't have time to listen to a whole episode of a podcast or whatever. Like, what about bite-sized stuff? Okay, let me do short form content, right? And so I just kept doing this, looking to different and new content formats to educate people. Really, it was all about kind of the North Star of impact and reaching people with the things that I believe. And so that was really one of the big reasons that I decided to write the book. I was like, okay, what is one big way in which people learn things and it's reading a book, right? By the way, there's another way in which people learn, which is in-person experiences. And so that's why I also launched my Sponsor Games event. And so this is, this is how I've always thought. I'm almost kind of like building the Creator Wizard Cinematic Universe. And the book is one part of that. 

—

Matt: Well, the first time I ever saw Justin, actually, I was just thinking about this while you were talking, was at a live event. And I kind of knew who he was, but didn't quite. 

Lauren: Was it when we were in Boise? Was that your first time? 

Matt: Maybe. 

Lauren: Because that was the first time I saw him. 

Matt: It may have been there. I can't recall exactly. But nonetheless, I just remember seeing him on stage and hearing him on stage and thinking this dude has way too much energy. Like, I'm either gonna love this guy or hate this guy.

Lauren: Also how I feel about people with too much energy. 

Matt: Man he's got a lot of energy. It seems, he seems to come by it naturally though, and the more I've gotten to know him the more I realized that I really do like him. I think he really tries to come from a place of being helpful and adding value. He went through all of that on his own, learning all of these things about landing sponsorships and other stuff, and the idea that he's able to pass that on now in the ways that he does it I think is really cool. Unlike a lot of the other coaches that you would see out there around the topics of sponsorship or partnership. I think he just has a way of helping you relate to him and really understand the concepts and the approaches. 

Lauren: I think that is something that is truly a defining quality between a good content entrepreneur and a great content entrepreneur. Is somebody that you can feel that like actual genuine enthusiasm and passion for what it is they do. If you're learning from somebody who is in it for the money or the success or the…you know, I know this thing and I know it really really well, so I'm gonna tell you guys all about it, but they don't have that that spark behind it, you know, there's there's nothing fun about that. There's nothing memorable about that. But when you talk to somebody who is just so genuinely like, I feel passionately about this subject that I have made my entire life's work, and I genuinely, enthusiastically want to help other people understand it and succeed in it as well. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Like that's, that's the mark of a really, really fantastic content creator and content entrepreneur. And I absolutely think Justin has that. 

Matt: Yeah. It really came out too in Sponsor Games. I mean, he's literally helping and coaching people there on the spot, in the moment, nothing scripted. You can just tell like it does come from a place of not only extreme subject matter expertise through experience, but passion, you know what I mean?

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: And so again, I wasn't sure what to expect at that event. And I wasn't sure what to expect from Justin at that event, but it really was really cool. And you could see that for a lot of the people that were there, it was transformational. 

[9:45]

Matt: So, all right, let's jump into…

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: His book – 

Lauren: Yes

Matt: – and his journey with this book and all of the cool stuff about why he did it and what the outcomes have been so far. 

Lauren: Yeah. Just to talk a little bit more about the book itself, he describes it as ‘the definitive guide for anyone looking to transform their influence into a lucrative income stream through brand partnerships.’ And basically is an opportunity to tell people this is how to acquire sponsorships, not just sitting around waiting for brands to reach out to you –  

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: But rather proactively setting yourself up, pitching yourself, reaching out to brands and securing actual deals that are worth securing. 

Matt: Yeah, I think, you know, for a lot of creators, because let's face it, there's a lot of them right now. There are some that I think assume that brands will come to them if they grow their channels large enough. And sometimes it happens. But ultimately, the size of your channel doesn't really always matter. And Justin is helping people understand that and teaching them, you know, the hardest part is that actual pitch, that cold outreach. That, hey Home Depot, I'm so-and-so. I have this channel that talks about home projects and this, that, and the – like, that cold pitch, that outreach is the hardest thing to do. And if you get it wrong the first time, you most likely don't get a second chance. So just that alone in the way that he's able to help people do that is, is amazing. I think bringing that to a book could have been a pretty daunting task, but I feel like he executed really well. 

Lauren: Yes, I think so too. He was explaining that I – and I think this is a concern that a lot of creators have when it comes to like, am I really going to publish a book that has a lot of my educational content in it? He talked about basically that, yes, it does kind of cannibalize a lot of his course material that he had in the online courses that he was selling. 

Matt: It's a strong word, but go ahead.

Lauren: That was the exact word that he used. But I think it kind of made sense for how he was saying it. That that was almost intentional or it was a strategic decision on his part because he was interested in pivoting more towards one-on-one coaching and direct coaching with people. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And this was a way to kind of give people new access into Creator Wizard and the opportunity to say like, okay, instead of doing this like, higher price point course and getting all this information here, let me learn from this book. Let me be sold on the idea of why this is worth it. He also mentioned something about…the book is a great way to reach people who are sponsorship skeptics, which I think makes sense – 

Matt: Which are – it's a lot of people. That's a big population. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: Yeah, you people that you have to convince that this is worth it might not be willing to watch hours and hours of YouTube videos –  

Matt: Or sign up for, you know, a master class or something like that, yeah. 

Lauren: Right, right. But a book that they're being pitched, maybe for a little bit of money, maybe even given for free as like a no really like, I'm so confident that this book is gonna change your mind. I'm gonna – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – give it to you for free. That can be a really powerful lead gen tool. 

Matt: Yeah. So Justin did his book through a hybrid publishing model, which is a mix of self-publishing and then publishing services. He used Tilt Publishing, which means basically Justin created his manuscript, paid his package price and turned the manuscript over to Tilt Publishing. And the people at Tilt Publishing took care of the editing or some of the editing. I think Justin had some of the editing done and then layout and cover design. Honestly, that's probably one of the cool – one of my favorite covers of any book. 

Lauren: I really like the cover. And I also really like the fact that he went with the cream paper that matches the cover. 

Matt: That's right. 

Lauren: It kinda, like it goes – 

Matt: That color combination – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: – of inside to out and cream red and black on the I just think goes really well. 

Lauren: It's a really clean, really smooth. I actually thought about wearing a red shirt today just to – 

Matt: Well that would have been –

Lauren: – match the color. 

Matt: – scary. Creepy. 

Lauren: Well, unfortunately, then I realized I only own one red shirt. So that shot that idea down. 

Matt: So, using hybrid publishing, he was able to turn over some of that. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: And really make sure that the book that he brought to market was the best representation of him and his content. I know that was important to him. So shout out to Tilt Publishing for creating a beautiful book from Justin's manuscript, which I do think helped a lot in his marketing efforts. And I do know that during the process, he would take some of the cover mockups that he was given and he would post those on LinkedIn and ask for people's opinions or do polls. So he was turning a lot of that pre-production work into social media content. And we've talked about that, right? We've talked about when you're in that process of deciding between three different covers, taking it public and using that as social content to drive engagement. And those posts that he made on LinkedIn and other places with cover choices, I mean, he got tons of engagement on his posts. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: People love, like you could tell there's people that had never commented on his posts before that would crawl out of the woodwork and make a comment about which cover they liked the best or whatever that might be. So, working through a hybrid publisher I think worked really well for him. And being able to take some of that process as they went through pre-production and use that as social content, I think, really helped him generate a lot of pre-launch buzz. 

Lauren: Yeah, which paid off in spades, honestly.

[15:26]

Lauren: But he's done a lot of really cool work and we should probably just jump into that. Because while his pre-launch efforts were very cool, and I do want to talk about those, we've talked enough about his marketing in public that I want to talk about his book sale goal. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: He did this really cool, very public, I am setting a goal of selling X number of copies in X number of days… 

—

Justin: It's been awesome. I've had a lot of people say like, I bought the book because I wanted to see the ticker go up, right? So the goal that I had set, if you go to sponsormagnet.com/challenge, I haven't updated this since it's past April. So I had set this date. It was basically three months post launch because it launched on January 21st. In 90 days I said, okay, if we hit this number of books, I'm gonna you're gonna unlock all of these things. And so we only ended up – only – ended up unlocking the first thing. So I got to I'm at, you know, almost 3500 books now, but like we didn't hit that by April 21st. But like, I don't care. Like, I was just trying, I was out here trying things like I didn't know if it was gonna work or not, right? But it was fun and novel to like have these things that I was like, talking about, and reasons to like, email my list and be like guys were almost at this, you know, threshold this type of thing. So I thought it was great and I'm continuing to kind of be – my new goal is a hundred thousand copies in people's hands in the next five years. So that's like a, that's like a big, much larger and more ambitious target, but… Yeah, it's uh, I don't know. We'll see. Stay tuned. 

—

Lauren: A hundred thousand copies in hands in five years.

Matt: I think if anybody can do it, it's Justin in this book. 

Lauren: Honestly, I think so too. I almost bought myself a copy after spending five minutes on his LinkedIn and I don't even have a brand that I need sponsorships for. 

Matt: Well, you never know. 

Lauren: Yet. I don't have a brand yet that I need sponsorships for. 

Matt: But the reality of it is, you know, Justin's also very well positioned because there are not a lot of books or content out there around securing sponsorships that are as helpful or, I think, as valuable as Justin's, and even in general. He did paperback. Did he do hardcover? 

Lauren: You know, I actually don't know. 

Matt: I don't think he did. 

Lauren: I don't think he did. 

Matt: He did ebook though. And then he just like within the last few days. Well, when this episode goes to air, it'll probably be about a month at that point. But then he did audiobook and he narrated the audiobook himself. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: Yeah, so on the topic of how he released his book and some of other things, just note he did a staggered release, a staggered format release. So he launched the paperback –

Lauren: And the ebook. 

Matt: – and the ebook. And he sold direct for I think the first 90 days, or something like that. Which was an important part of his strategy. And then he went to Amazon with it and started branching out and going wide. And then again, just recently, finished up the ebook. He was narrating it himself. So he does have all formats in the market now, too. 

Lauren: Yes, which was a very cool approach I think, and I want to talk about both parts of that, about the staggered format and then also the, the going wide sales and distribution. Because I think those are both things that are really cool, and something that we've talked a lot about, but we've talked about it kind of abstractly as like a, this is what you should do and this is an example of somebody who did it and made it work really well for him. So first with the staggered releases of formats, he did the paperback and ebook, I believe at the same time. I believe those two came out at the same time and supported them with a lot of pre-launch marketing that I'm sure we'll talk about at some point. And then the updated or the regularly recurring, like this is my sales goal for this, help me reach this goal. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Did a lot of talking about that in public. And that was, that was really cool. But then also staggered the audiobook release by, I guess, probably about six months, if this came out in January. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: We're recording this episode in the middle of June. At the time that we're recording it, I think he said it was available on most but not all platforms on audiobook. And by the time this episode comes out, it'll probably be available on all. There's just, you know, approval processes and stuff like that for some of the platforms. But one of the things that happened that he said was not actually an intentional strategy, but was an incredibly cool accident of opportunity, was because he staggered the release of the audiobook, and because he decided that he was doing the audiobook narration himself, which is also something that's awesome. And when you have a background as a YouTuber and a podcaster, it's probably easy enough for you to make that jump into audiobook narration. 

Matt: Probably easier than the average person, absolutely. 

Lauren: Yes, yeah. 

Matt: But I think from the people I've talked to who have done it, it's still a pretty hard thing to do. 

Lauren: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. I can't imagine actually just from editing the episodes that we do, how much work has to go into doing those – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – and getting it right for sure. But one of the things that I thought was so cool as a result of that, was that he actually decided to add additional content to the audiobook that he was able to do because it was six months later. Or I'm sure it went into production less than that so, you know, several months after the release. And the additional content that he added to the audiobook was…he has, I think at this point, he said hundreds of testimonials from people that have bought the book and have actual like, tangible proof of: I bought this book and then landed this five figure, six figure sponsorship deal. Like. 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: I am directly attributing my success landing this deal to your book. And he has a bunch of people now that he has testimonials from that. 

Matt: Can you imagine buying a twenty-something dollar book and then within weeks landing like a, let's just say a $15,000 sponsorship for your, you know, YouTube channel? 

Lauren: I would argue that's the best return on investment you are ever going to get.

Matt: Come on. 

Lauren: Like. 

Matt: That’s insane. 

Lauren: Absolutely. But he has a genuinely like not, I'm not talking about like one or two – 

Matt: No, yeah, I – 

Lauren: – testimonials and you can see them. If you go on his LinkedIn, every post that he has posted about this book has at least one comment from somebody on it saying like this book, game changer for me, whatever. 

Matt: He added those into his audiobook? 

Lauren: So the audiobook, the end of every chapter of the audiobook he's added an interview with one person that provided a testimonial for him. And he interviewed them about how the specific steps talked about in that chapter – 

Matt: So relevant to that chapter. 

Lauren: – helped them secure the deal that they secured as a result of reading the book. 

Matt: Man he's a clever little guy, isn’t he? 

Lauren: He really is. But he said that and I was like, wow, that is, I mean, what an incredible opportunity. But also, if you needed more convincing that this was really worth your time and investment, you're listening to people in real time tell you this book, not Justin's coaching, not Justin's courses, not working with him in the past, this book that you are listening to right now worked for me and this is how. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: That's incredible. 

Matt: That’s really smart of him. 

Lauren: That's the best proof of concept I've ever heard. So I just thought that was really cool. So if you are an audiobook person, you can go listen to the audiobook. I'm assuming by the time this episode is out, it'll be available everywhere. 

[23:19]

Matt: So he launched in January. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: First 90 days, he sold direct, captured all that customer data. He did pre-orders, by the way. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: And he rolled out he launched in January, I think with a couple hundred pre-orders. I believe, maybe more than that. I think he hit his thousand copy mark in that first 90 days. 

Lauren: Yes, he did. 

Matt: Then he started going wide. So he updated to Amazon distribution 

Lauren: Yes, I did want to talk about that was, that was next. 

Matt: He started working on the audiobook format. We're just trying to go through, you know, his process, his journey, so that people get a good understanding of what he's doing. You know, his pre-marketing efforts were great. We talked about that. So that by the time he did launch in January, people were very well aware that this book was coming out. He did a good job of getting a bunch of interviews and things lined up prior to the launch. And then at launch, it was pretty much a full court press. He put together a pretty solid street team of people that helped him get the word out about the book at launch time. And then post-launch, which is where most people lose steam and they lose it generally, on average, you see about a three month arc where, you know, a book launches and for a solid two and a half to three months, they just got their foot on the gas. They're talking about it. They're being interviewed. They're pushing it on, on posts, you know, everywhere they can. And then after about that three month mark, people just start to kind of take a dive, right? Like, for whatever reason, you know, whether it's they're just not getting any more responses, the engagement plateaus, whatever that might be. But not Justin. It’s almost like he said no, watch this. He did the opposite and and his, his arc is still going up. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: And I think that's the coolest thing is post-launch, it’s almost like he's just getting started. You know, most people, just before prelaunch and launch is their like, that's when they're up they're hitting that arc in that peak. But I feel like Justin seems to be just getting started and he's going into month seven after launch. I think that the way that he's rolled this out, this book and all the things he's doing from one step to the next, have just been extremely well thought out. His next book should be about how to launch a book to be honest. 

Lauren: Honestly, it should be. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I would read it, for sure. Because he really is doing a master class live in public on how to successfully launch a book and it's really cool to watch. I want to touch on one of the things that you said in there with his pre-launch efforts. This is something that I think kind of goes hand in hand with his specific content, obviously he's writing a book about how to pitch yourself for sponsorship deals. You have to kind of be comfortable with the idea of cold calling and reaching out to people and pitching yourself for things. If that's something that you're interested in doing as a creator. And so he he said that one of the things that he did for his pre-launch efforts that really helped him a lot with his pre-launch, was he made a list of a hundred people that he believed that he could reach out to and ask for a favor. And say, can I come be a guest on your podcast? Can you give me a guest spot on your blog? Can I give you some newsletter content, or whatever? 

Matt: I mean, that alone is a...is a testament to Justin. If I had to make a list of 100 people I could go to for a favor of any size, I don't know if I could come up with 100 people. 

Lauren: I don't know if I could come up with a list of 100 people that I know. And I work at a company with 70-something people. 

Matt: Yeah, maybe I don't know. 

Lauren: Like 100 people that I could text right now and just say hi, not even ask for a favor. I actually don't know that I could come up with… 

Matt: So for the rest of us, maybe the list is 25.

Lauren: Sure, but I mean, you gotta cast a wide net. 

Matt: Yeah, of course. 

Lauren: I guess. And he did secure, I think he said somewhere like 60 or 70 different collaboration partnerships, whatever. But one of the things that I thought was really cool about how he did that, and I thought was really great advice, was he created shareable promo content.

—

Justin: Let me show you the page. Okay, so this page is sponsormagnet.com/partner-assets, and you guys can check this out if you want. But we made a dedicated landing page. We had swipe copy for email and social with a bunch of pre-written newsletters, social posts. Social media assets like Canva, templates that they could use, blank stuff, all the book assets, you know, mock-ups and so on, logos, frequently asked questions. And so we really did our best to try to make it as easy as possible to share the book. And so ultimately I went on something like 60 or 70 podcast interviews over the several months leading up to the launch. And so it was absolutely fricking exhausting. But it worked. You know, helped a lot. 

—

Lauren: That was all part of his prelaunch marketing efforts, which I thought was very proactive and a great example of really going out there and making the most of your network. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And making the most of partnerships that you've built up over time and over years. And like we said earlier, I mean, he's been in the game for sixteen years. Is that how math works? 2009? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah? 

Matt: But again, you know, these are some of those small things I think that people listening can benefit from. This idea of creating a partner's landing page for his book. 

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: We've never talked about that. 

Lauren: No, but that's a great idea. 

Matt: We've touched on creating assets for your PR efforts, right? That you could potentially share around or whatever, but. Again, he just takes it to another level. And I think there's some value there for people listening where, you know, go and look at what he's done or just take that idea from something else. Creating a partner's assets page where they can download whatever need to be, it does make that favor much smaller when you ask it, you know? 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: Like, hey, I would love for you to potentially give me a review or just a shout out about my book or whatever. And to make it easy for you, just click on this link. There's stuff there you can use for whatever channel is your favorite, whether it's Instagram or X or Twitter or Blue Sky or whatever that might be. It's all there. Removing that friction, I think, is just really, really smart, you know? And the partner page aside, when you look at his website that he built for his book, A, it matches, its own brand, everything for his other business, Creator Wizard. But it is just so well done. He used the API, so didn't use a Shopify plugin or anything. He actually used our print API, so it's coded directly into his site, and that allows him a lot of flexibility and freedom too. But even something as simple as like, when you're going to add the book to your cart, there's several different choices there. And we have touched on this a little bit, but  he once again – and I would encourage everybody to look at this. I don't care if you're doing fiction or nonfiction, this one thing alone, I think will help increase your book sales. So when you go to add a copy of his book to the cart, there's like six options or choices, right? You can add a single copy of the book to your cart. And very cleverly, it says something along the lines of like, oh, you know living dangerously, huh? No backup copy. Yeah, it says living dangerously. No backup copy. It's one copy. To me, you know, even just finding comedy. But then the next one is two paperback copies. And little funny thing just underneath that just says just in case you read in the shower, right? Like. And it goes on, you can order a three pack of the book, a ten pack, right, which has something funny there it says plot twist, you're the bookstore now. And other things. So again adding these options. Because everybody says yeah, add to cart and it's that one copy. And sure most carts you can go and update the one from a three, but nobody does. But if you made it – again, it's about removing friction – if you made it very easy by just having that choice there of three paperback copies. Oh, actually, yeah, I may want to give one to Lauren and I may want to have an extra one on hand or whatever. It's that simple. And I know people are like, why would somebody – I'm telling you, if you put it in front of them, if it's an option, if it makes it super easy, people will click it. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: You know, the ten paperbacks or the hundred paperbacks, you never know if somebody from an organization wants to provide copies to a bunch of their employees whose sole job is to go out and secure partnerships and sponsorships for their brand or their business or whatever it is they do. I mean. So having those options there, like something as simple as that, just really smart and the way that it's done, injecting humor into it, I think is just an excellent example of how this should be executed. 

Lauren: I think so too. And I would highly encourage anybody that is interested in any kind of book sales for whatever reason, whether you are a fiction author, whether you're somebody who's using a book as a lead gen tool, whether you're trying to create a new revenue stream, whatever it is, I highly recommend checking out his website. I think it's a really great example of a website that is doing all of the things correctly. 

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: I agree. I would rip this thing off left and right. 

Lauren: Oh, a hundred percent. 

Matt: I would copy every bit of this thing, if I was launching a book right now. 

[32:47]

Lauren: A hundred percent. And I do want to – that does bring me back to the not only the staggered format release but the staggered distribution release. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Like Matt said earlier, Justin did do the first 90 days of book sales exclusively direct from his website, through the API. And he was very upfront about the exact reason that we always say that you should want to be selling direct, because he wanted to be able to own those relationships. He wanted to be able to have people in his ecosystem that he gets their email address, he can remarket to them, he can establish that direct connection with them. He also offers bonus supplemental content for anyone that buys the book. So that is a great way to get people to give him their information, even if you don't buy it directly from him. That is a great way to get people if they came from a third party retailer – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – to still wind up on his mailing list. But he did ultimately go wide with his distribution after that initial launch push. He has the books available on Amazon and other retailers. He wanted to go as wide as possible. He wanted people to be able to find his book anywhere, but he still pushes all of his promotion to his website. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Because there's a difference – and I think that's a really important distinction that we should all understand – there's a difference between going wide with your book sales and having your book available everywhere and going wide with your promotional efforts. And I would not encourage anybody to go wide with your promotional efforts. Go wide with your book sales, have your book available on as many retail distribution platforms as possible, but continue to drive all of your marketing efforts, anything that you're doing to promote your book, to your website. You should not be linking to Amazon. You should not be linking to any competitors. You should be linking to your website that has your book on it. Because you want people to go to your space. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: No one else's.

Matt: Definitely. I mean, everything Justin does going forward, he's now building that database of people who bought his book. Which I know was a big goal of his. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: You know, in selling direct, was to capture that data. 

Lauren: And also to have those opportunities to continue to remarket to these people, 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Which was another great side effect of the staggered release and the staggered distribution, in both cases. Because obviously, while you're hoping that everybody that buys the book from you is going to wind up on your mailing list, he already has a large existing newsletter following and mailing list. So there are certainly plenty of people on that that might not have bought the book yet. The opportunities of, hey, just letting everybody know the book is now available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop.org, wherever you like to buy your books. If you haven't already bought it for me, I'd still prefer you buy it for me, but, you know, you can buy it there now if you want to. And then three months later, hey, everybody, just letting you know the audiobook is out now and it's got a bunch of extra bonus content in it. It's narrated by me, but there's also a bunch of guest appearances from creators just like you or influencers just like you. Go check it out, you can find it here on Libro.FM or wherever. And then a month from now, oh now it's on Audible too, so it's an opportunity and a reason to reach out to people again and remind them that the book exists. Without just sending another email saying knock knock, hey. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: You buy that book yet? 

Matt: He's really good at promoting his book in such a way where… I don't think it's obnoxious and or you know over the top, to a degree. He would probably describe it that way himself. 

Lauren: He did. 

Matt: Others might say – yeah. But I just love the way that he does it. Again you can just tell that it's genuine. And I think the real point here and again for people to take some value away from this is that he's just consistent with it. You know, we talked about that three month arc that seems to be the pattern for most people post launch, but Justin just doesn't stop talking about his book and he does it in ways that I think are helpful. He shows up every day and he talks about it in one way or another, whether it's in his email signature or anything else and I think, oh yeah, I see the quote that you have in here. 

—

Justin: Just constantly talk about it until you basically annoy everyone. I think I've very much strike, I'm right on the line of being like, shamelessly shilling myself and to the point of like where it's obnoxious. I think I do it in like, a way that's not obnoxious though. It's like a… I'm just so earnest I think in my desire to help people that it doesn't come across as like a buy my thing, buy my thing, buy my thing. It's like I – it all comes from like I want to help you. I really believe that this can like have a huge impact for your business and your life. And so please just like read the dang book. Right. I'll give it to you if you don't want to buy it. You know, this type of energy.

—

Lauren: That was great. 

Matt: I mean, you know, again, it's nice to see these things materialize because, you know, people hear us talk about it and they go, yeah, okay. But, you know, and again, it's, it's kind of the impetus behind us doing these creator spotlights is when you can see or, we can show you, firsthand people that are putting a lot of the stuff in practice and combining a lot of the things. And with Justin, he's combined everything, and then added to that. In true Justin fashion he's, he's elevated some of those things, but it does work. It's not just us sitting around saying, yeah, you should do this or you should do that, like. When you do these things in conjunction with each other, it works.

Lauren: Yeah. I think this is very much one part proof of concept of things that we've talked about throughout this podcast that we're saying, no, look, actually somebody really did it and did it really well. But the other part, just great ideation of… look at, look at what happens when you go out there and you try new things. 

Matt: Yeah, but you know what? To a degree, too. And again, that just, I think, further humanizes him and his efforts. Right now we are surrounded by AI and all kinds of other automated types of content creation delivery. And, you know, there are many times we're not sure what's real or sincere or, you know, you've got creators come at you left and right talking about six figure, seven figure incomes, all these things, and it just starts to feel like you're living in an infomercial these days. It's like creator success overload at times, you just don't know what to believe. But because he's been so public about everything the losses and the wins, like you said, I think that just further humanizes Justin. I keep going back to this, we probably don't share quite the same opinions on this, to a degree but, I will never ever tell somebody they should publish traditionally. I just won't. I don't believe in the business model. I think it's a dying, archaic way of doing things. I think, you know, they've had their era, their period of where, you know, okay, it was cool to traditionally publish a book and there were some benefits that came from that. Mostly just the idea that you were known as an author for writing this book. Very few made a lot of money from writing books through the traditional process. But what Justin's been able to build not just in money like, put that aside, because direct book sales he's not getting rich off that. Even the amount of copies he sold. It's everything else that's come from it. Which he wouldn't have if he published traditionally. This database now that he has of people that have bought his book, he wouldn't have that as if he published traditionally. His ability to almost, you know, he's been able to restructure kind of his business, his curriculum, his content and his offerings in such that… I'm going to say this and some people might think, well, that doesn't sound great, but just hear me through to the end. By having a book at a lower price point, right, for a piece of content that theoretically gives away a lot of your core stuff, educational components, your frameworks and things like that. And then you also have these different courses and other offerings and then these master classes that typically are on the higher end of the price points, right? We've seen master classes from people go for as high as 50, 60, 75, $80,000, you know? For a six month whatever. You can kind of cut the middle section of those content offerings out to a degree. Right? So online courses, for example and Justin's referenced this and I've heard other people talk about it, online courses are gonna start becoming less and less of a thing because of AI and other stuff. But having this lower level, entry level price point product that can then push people down the funnel, so to speak, into your higher priced master classes, I think is really great. Having somebody take an online course of yours for fifty bucks, a hundred bucks, 300 bucks, whatever they go for, just depends on who you are. But again, they can run the gamut from $50 to $500. They may or may not find what they need out of that. More than likely they'll get enough and then that's probably it. They might take another online course from you at some point or buy some other, but the likelihood and I think today's world where they're going to take an online course of yours, spend a couple hundred bucks and then go on to take a master class from you, that's shrinking or declining and probably going to disappear soon. But the likelihood that somebody would spend twenty bucks on your book, find such value in that thing that they land a fifteen thousand dollar sponsorship or a thirty thousand dollar sponsorship. The likelihood that they would then turn around and go well if I learned this much, if I landed this sponsorship from a twenty dollar book from this guy… Absolutely. I'm going to take half of that sponsorship money I just got and i'm going to go drop it as a deposit on his next master class. Because if I can get 15, 20, 30,000 from his book, imagine what I could get if I took his high ticket master class. 

Lauren: Yes. And he actually did talk about that, especially what you said about the online courses are kind of going out in the age of AI. It's not the way that people consume educational content anymore. There are too many different other options available to them. But specifically, like I was saying where he said he was kind of aware of the fact that the book was going to be cannibalizing some of his course content, but he was okay with that as a strategic pivot with the business. He's pivoting and Creator Wizard is pivoting towards more one-on-one coaching and people that are looking for more long-term support and those direct relationships… Justin was saying that if the book is an opportunity to get people to say, okay, I've learned a lot. I'm convinced now that sponsorships are worth my time and investment, but I still need a little more help. Like the, the book got me there and it convinced me, but I am navigating this really big deal or I'm navigating something that I feel a little bit out of my depth in. Now they are more willing to take that next step towards that larger buy-in of a one-on-one coaching opportunity, but it is much more of a lead gen opportunity for him in that case. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Which I think makes a lot of sense. Although I did really like, I asked him if that was the primary motivation behind publishing the book, was it lead gen? And he said ultimately it was honestly just about, passing on the education and information that he has to the next generation of creators. And I thought that was a cool reason to want to do this. Added to the genuineness of what he was talking about. I don't know. I liked it. I wanted to shout that out. 

[44:39]

Matt: I think the important thing here, though, is again, for this first creator spotlight, we really wanted to find somebody that had embodied a lot of the tactics and principles that we've been talking about for the last 70 something episodes. And when we sat down and thought about or looked through the different books that we've come across or authors we've worked with or things like that, he was a pretty clear standout there. And because he's still kind of really in the thick of his launch, you know, honestly, his arc is going long and wide. It just made the most sense to bring him in. Again, everything from getting that manuscript done pretty quickly, getting it edited, turned it over to a hybrid publisher to take care of really good cover design, layout, formatting, all those things. And then developing the strategy, the launch strategy of going staggered formats, selling direct first, capturing all that customer data, and then building steam off of that. You know, and then rolling through some of the other things that we talk about with post-launch marketing, so the PR efforts, the interviews, the really cool little details and subtle things that he adds in too when you actually buy the book from him or… you know, again, it's just this, like you said, it's it's master class in like how you should create, publish, market and sell a book, you know? I don't think we could have picked a better person to start with. And I think that, again, for those who are listening, these things work. And so putting together, a plan, a strategy that'll work for you that you have time for, that incorporates these tactics. I think you will see some of these same results and, you know, go look at Justin's stuff. Go to creatorwizard.com, go to sponsormagnet.com, check out his website. Like everything is just done really well. And a lot of attention has been paid to the details that a lot of people wouldn't think about. There's a lot of sincerity baked in to everything there. I think that really helps. A lot of testimonial and UGC is there, which really drives trust, which is in short supply, but in high demand out there right now. So yeah. 

Lauren: I think we've done it. 

Matt: Maybe we'll see. 

Lauren: We'll see. I don't know. I think that if, if we haven't convinced you by now that it's worth your time and effort to publish a book, then maybe Justin will.

—

Justin: I would say that there's something really special about the fact that I now introduce myself as an author. Author of Sponsor Magnet. Like I, I never thought that that would be the main thing that I say now, rather than creator of Creator Wizard, or founder of Creator Wizard, or YouTuber, or whatever. Like I’m a – I call myself author of Sponsor Magnet. That's the main thing I say now in my bio and all that. So that's wild. I've been a creator for…since 2009, and so this is still a title that feels super new to me, but… There's something, there's something different about when people hear that. And I just feel so proud to be able to do that. And so yeah for any, anyone else listening or watching this: I tell everyone to write a book especially if you're an educator. Holy cow such as such an accelerant. 

—

Matt: Yeah I mean that's the hope, right? Like you can listen to us two idiots up here talking as much as you want, and hopefully you find value in that. But we'd like to start doing more of these creator spotlights so that you can actually see people putting this stuff into practice and maybe Lauren and I'll start putting some of this stuff into practice too. 

Lauren: Yeah, maybe. We'll see. All right. Well, leave us a review. Send us an email at podcast@lulu.com Comment on Lulu social on YouTube, on Instagram, anywhere you want to come find us and give us a shout and we will be back next week with another new episode. 

Matt: Later. 

Lauren: Bye.