[0:33] - Intro

Lauren: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Publish & Prosper. This is episode number 87 and it's a really special one because we are recording it live at CEX in Cleveland. 

Matt: In Cleveland. 

Lauren: In Cleveland. 

Matt: We're here by choice. We weren't brought here against our will. 

Lauren: Mmmm.

Matt: Don't lie, you love it here. 

Lauren: That's true, I do. 

Matt: You couldn't wait to get here and go to your favorite taco place. 

Lauren: I did. 

Matt: That's all you talked about. 

Lauren: I know. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And I was very excited, especially because I missed lunch because our flight was so delayed that we didn't have time for lunch. And then I saw Haley's email that we were going there for dinner. I was like, thank god. It's enough to power me through. 

Matt: We're in Cleveland by choice. That's the point here.

Lauren: We are. And we're having a really good time. 

Matt: And good tacos. 

Lauren: And good tacos. And going to some really great sessions. 

Matt: That's right. 

Lauren: And meeting some really cool people.

Matt: A lot of cool people. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: And learning a lot of cool things. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: I thought at 50 I couldn't learn anything else. 

Lauren: Can't relate. Mostly because I'm not 50. But also because I learn something new every day. 

Matt: I hate you. 

Lauren: Very often from you.

Matt: I'm actually learning a lot. 

Lauren: Me too. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: It's been really interesting. 

Matt: So we got a lot of conversations that we're gonna stitch together for this episode. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: So you won't just have to listen to the two of us ramble on about Disney or bracelets or Taylor Swift or any other bullshit like that. You'll get to hear from some of the really cool people that we're talking to here. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: Including Joe Pulizzi and many others. 

Lauren: Austin L. Church. Julia Levine, who's a new friend that was really exciting to get her on. 

Matt: That's great. 

Lauren: Talk to her a little bit. 

Matt: Good.

Lauren: And a few more surprise ones. You'll just have to watch the episode to – 

Matt: There you go. 

Lauren: Or listen, but I’d watch this one. If you're listening, go on YouTube, watch this one, it's gonna be good. 

Matt: We might even stitch in some footage of Lauren eating tacos. 

Lauren: There is no footage of that. 

Matt: No? 

Lauren: No. 

Matt: What do your bracelets say today? 

Lauren: Oh good question. I'm wearing – actually, I'm wearing more than I usually do.

Matt: You are. 

Lauren: I'm wearing five.

Matt: You've got quite a few there. 

Lauren: I know. 

Matt: Is this special occasion bracelets? 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah? 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Were all of these made for the, the event? 

Lauren: No. 

Matt: No, okay. 

Lauren: Actually only one of them was made for the event. 

Matt: Okay, which one is that? 

Lauren: Niche. 

Matt: And I have the matching – well. 

Lauren: We have –

Matt: Nitch. 

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: I have the right one on, she has the wrong one on. But she so kindly made me one so I could show everybody how right I was about Niche vs. Niche. 

Lauren: That was for you, for sure. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Let's go to Disney, which is –

Matt: Okay, we love that. 

Lauren: – definitely where I'd rather be than Cleveland, but this is a close second. 

Matt: You know what, we just found a new ally because Jay Acunzo is apparently a big Disney – 

Lauren: That was great. The number of Disney people at this conference is really inspiring. 

Matt: Very surprising. 

Lauren: For sure. 

Matt: Okay, what's the other one? 

Lauren: Read in Peace. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Dancing Phantoms.

Matt: Okay. And what's the last one?

Lauren: Glowing.

Matt: Glowing? 

Lauren: Glowing. 

Matt: That's very bright and gold – 

Lauren: It is –

Matt: It’s fancy.

Lauren: – from the Kpop Demon Hunters song – 

Matt: – I don't know any of that– 

Lauren: – Golden.

Matt: I don't know any of that. 

Lauren: Which is a phrase that never should have left my mouth or entered my vocabulary at all. But here we are.

Matt: I'm gonna agree with you.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: In a weird twist of plot.

Lauren: Great. 

Matt: Well, stay with us. 

Lauren: Promise it'll get more interesting than this. 

Matt: It's a big promise, but we'll try. 

Lauren: It is a big promise. So yeah, stick around. 

Matt: Alright. ‘

Lauren: See where it goes. 

[3:42] - Austin L. Church on Writing a Book (and What He’ll Do Differently Next Time)

Lauren: Thank you so much for joining me –

Austin: Sure. 

Lauren: – on Publish & Prosper. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? 

Austin: Austin L. Church. 

Lauren: Fantastic. 

Austin: Will not apologize for the pretentious middle initial. 

Lauren: I don't think you should. 

Austin: I'm the founder of Freelance Cake, and I connect advanced freelancers with each other and with resources and with advice. 

Lauren: How do you explain what you do to like, a complete stranger at a party? Someone who has no context for content entrepreneurship or freelance or anything like that? 

Austin: It's a challenge, right? 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Austin: Most of the time, if I'm talking about consulting work, which I still do, I just say I'm a marketing advisor. 

Lauren: Sure. 

Austin: When I'm talking about Freelance Cake, I'll say, oh, I help other freelancers find their income lifestyle sweet spot. And so I'm a coach and I'm an educator. And that normally makes people not want to answer or ask more questions. And so then I can say, what about you? And then we… the conversation moves on from there. 

Lauren: Perfect conversation segue. 

Austin: That’s right.

Lauren: That's how you get out of answering questions.

Austin: That’s right.

Lauren: For sure. 

Austin: Cause they don't actually care. 

Lauren: Well, you're also an author… 

Austin: That’s true. 

Lauren: Right? 

Austin: Yes. 

Lauren: Yeah? You wrote a book, was it last year? 

Austin: So it came out February of last year. 

Lauren: Wow. So it's been over a year. 

Austin: Eighteen months. It's crazy. 

Lauren: Wow. It's like a toddler already.

Austin: It's walking, leaving stains on the wall. It's great. 

Lauren: Great, perfect. You published your book called…

Austin: Free Money. 

Lauren: Fantastic title. 

Austin: Thank you. 

Lauren: What was that like? Was that your first book that you published? 

Austin: I published a children's picture book –

Lauren: Really?

Austin: – in 2018 – 

Lauren: Okay. 

Austin: Which was an amazing experience. This one was honestly a lot harder. I learned through a lot of painful deleting and editing that having a manuscript and having a book is not the same thing. So one thing I learned was: hire a developmental editor who will love your baby just as much as you do, and help your baby kind of reach the full stage of maturity. And so I'll always love Amanda Lewis for helping transform a manuscript into a book. Another thing I learned is [5:51] you can either want people to buy a book or you can be obsessed with passing on a message that you believe can make people's lives better. And I think that shift of… Do I believe in what's in this book so strongly that I'd love to tell anyone who will listen, hey, the ideas here, the process here – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Austin: – is something that you need and it will make your life better. That doesn't seem to be that far removed, but [6:20] if you go into a book thinking I'm gonna sell books versus go into it thinking, how do I serve people at scale? I think that second way of thinking about it is much better. 

Lauren: I think that's something that really differentiates a good book from a great book. That understanding of the book sales are almost secondary to what the purpose of the book actually is. 

Austin: I still look at Free Money and kind of laugh, because I never would have thought… Being a recovering money moron myself, never would have thought that I would write a book about pricing and money mindset. And yet after I wrote the book, it was exciting to think I can get it in the hands of people. It can help them figure out what their relationship with money is, can help them charge what they're worth. And honestly, I don't have to try to make people understand that in a conversation, which is really hard. 

Lauren: Right. 

Austin: I can say, take the book. I promise if you read it, this book will make you $100,000 or a million dollars, if you will just read it. So it is kind of a legacy. If you really have a heart to serve people, then writing a book is a great way to do that at scale.

Lauren: What's kind the lasting impact been now? It's been about eighteen months, so you've had some time, it's been out on the market. What's life like post book? 

Austin: I want to write more books. 

Lauren: Okay, like to hear that. 

Austin: I – It's funny, days will pass and I don't think about the book at all and then I'll see a copy of it and I'll think wait, I did that. That was hard, and that was incredibly fulfilling. I want to do that again, but the impact for me really, and this is going to sound cheesy, but it really is getting messages from complete strangers on LinkedIn, getting emails from complete strangers, meeting people at events who unbeknownst to me, right up until they tell me, are like, I read the book, I just sold my biggest project ever, or I'm finally confident in my prices, or I had a record month and thank you. And I'm just like, I helped. All of my pricing mistakes and all of the stupid things that I did along the way helped someone else. And I think life's hard, business is hard, it's incredibly fulfilling. If you can turn some of that…not pain, always, but just some of those lessons learned, some of the mistakes. If you can help someone else avoid that, so fulfilling, and then when they reach out and they let you know… Like well, maybe my life does mean something after all. 

Lauren: Wow, that is meaningful. 

Austin: It’s the best. 

Lauren: That's great, yeah. So you're gonna write another one then, obviously? 

Austin: Gonna write another one. 

Lauren: That's the next one. Do you know what you're going to do yet? Or are you still thinking about it? 

Austin: I have several ideas. I think the one I'll probably go with is a book about this concept called long ideas. Like long lasting ideas, and about the ones that have been around for a long time that are just as relevant to building a business as they were a hundred years ago. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Austin: Two hundred years ago. 

Lauren: Interesting. 

Austin: That's what I'm noodling on right now. 

Lauren: I like it. 

Austin: We'll see. It might change my mind. 

Lauren: All right. Is there anything that you're going to do differently this time around, now that you've done the process once and you've learned from that experience? Is there anything that like, this time around you're like, well, I learned not to do that last time. So I'm definitely going to make sure I do it this way this time? 

Austin: Yeah. I will write a proposal before I start working on the book. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Austin: I think differentiation is more important than ever. Write a book that you will love even after you've finished it. But it's not as simple as build it and they will come. 

Lauren: Right. 

Austin: Your book, from the beginning, needs to have built in some kind of value proposition, some kind of differentiation that makes people think, oh I have to check that out. And to think that you'll just sort of stumble across that while writing, I think, at least based on my experience with my first book, is unlikely. So how do you ensure that you sharpen an idea for a book in such a way that it's going to be really appealing to your target audience? Well, you spend as much time thinking about the concept and sharpening the concept as it might take you to write entire chapters. So it's sort of like ax sharpening, right? You'll be much more effective later when you're writing if you know exactly what the book needs to be and why. Book proposal. 

Lauren: Did you outline the first book before you wrote it? 

Austin: Oh. 

Lauren: Or were you writing as you were going? 

Austin: 100% I outlined it. I found out the original outline, which had three parts, was three books. 

Lauren: Oh. 

Austin: And so I only wrote one part. 

Lauren: Okay. 

Austin: And even that was a three hundred page book. So that was perhaps another lesson learned, is that no matter what you think will be in the book, the book will sort of change in your hands as you're writing it. Yet another reason to get really, really clear on what the concept of the book needs to be. 

Lauren: Right. 

Austin: Like, I love the writing process. And so it's easy for me to feel like I'm doing the work. I'm being really productive. I produced some words today. It's really easy for me to feel like I'm doing it. But I bet I threw out 50,000, 60,000 words.

Lauren: There’s – yeah. 

Austin: That hurts. 

Lauren: That kill your darlings thing has always been a thing that I have struggled very hard with and I'm always impressed by people that can…

Austin: Yeah. 

Lauren: Like, know how to make that cut. 

Austin: The other thing I'll do is I'll write it faster. But again it goes back to the proposal. I think I'll be able to write it a lot faster and lose less like, I won't have to delete as much –

Lauren: Right. 

Austin: – if I have a really sharp idea that is the organizing principle when I do write. It'll be much easier for me to say does this stay, does this go? Is this a rabbit trail worth writing down? Is this just a dead end and a distraction?

Lauren: Well, you're going to have to report back after you've done it. 

Austin: I'll be happy to report back. 

Lauren: And let us know how it went. What is like, your writing process, like writing habit? Do you have one? Or do you just kind of approach it as a when I have the time, when I'm feeling inspired or whatever? 

Austin: I try to write at least one hour every day. 

Lauren: Wow. 

Austin: Always in the morning, usually first thing, right after I've made myself coffee. And that's because I don't think if it's important, you should procrastinate. And if I want to be a writer, then I ought to be writing every day. 

Lauren: A concept, for sure. 

Austin: Imagine that, right? I write most often in Notion, not because I love the UI UX of writing in Notion, I think there are other writing apps that I find much more aesthetically pleasing, but I like the way Notion enables me to manage ideas. That was another thing with the first book that was incredibly challenging, and it grew even more challenging as the book grew. You have all these ideas, like a book is comprised of, or a book consists of, lots of ideas. And sometimes you know that you need to cut something out. Where do you put all of that material that you cut? And I have had like, writing anxiety where I'm like, hey, that's a great little anecdote, or that's a great tie in to some other book. Now's not the right place. How do I save this to not only make it easy for myself to find later, but also just get it out of sight so that I'm not tempted to revisit it? 

Lauren: Right. 

Austin: And Notion helps out on the idea management side. And so I'm willing to compromise and just say okay this is my writing app whether I think it's pretty or not. 

Lauren: So you're saying there's a better way than just having seventeen different Google Docs that are named things like draft 3.0.1 with an asterisk? 

Austin: Yes. 

Lauren: Because that one has one paragraph different – 

Austin: You’re describing my desktop. I've definitely been there, you know, have that t-shirt but that just – it’s so hard to manage those really long documents. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Austin: When, and again, knowing myself, when I sit down to write, I need to, based on what stage I'm at, focus on raw output. 

Lauren: Yeah.

Austin: Not on polishing up some section that I've already written. And it's crazy how a lot of the writing apps out there encourage distractibility. Like they make it even easier for me to do what my brain kind of wants to do, which is let me just go fiddle with sentences I've already put together, rather than do the net new writing over here and so I need to I need to pick tools that make it harder for me to get distracted. 

Lauren: Yeah, no it makes sense. Matt and I did an episode on building a writing habit. And by the end of the episode we looked at each other and were like we should actually probably just call this writing habits for people with undiagnosed ADHD, because it's really like everything was just… 

Austin: So, I have undiagnosed ADHD. My wife, who does have a formal diagnosis and takes medication, she just does what partners do and she just sends me stuff all the time and it's like, guilty. I can actually look back on my entire life from when I was like, early in school all the way up to now and see all of this scaffolding that I put in place, in part to help me focus – 

Lauren: Yep. 

Austin: – when my brain wants to like go all these different directions. So it's like if I'm actually butt in chair in the morning, and excited to write, that's amazing. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Austin: But then I wake up forty-five minutes later and I have edited the first five paragraphs of the intro for the seventh time. And this is not an exaggeration. Mind you, this was an intro to Free Money I ended up tossing entirely. 

Lauren: It hurts. That – 

Austin: That is so wasteful. So how do I, with my own writing process, with undiagnosed ADHD, say, hey, I love my brain, but I can't just let it do whatever it wants.

Lauren: Yup.

Austin: I need to have the structure to help me actually get the words down on paper. And then I can go crazy with editing – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Austin: – and polishing and all that good stuff later. 

Lauren: Yeah, for sure. 

Austin: But it's not easy. 

Lauren: No, it's definitely not. It is definitely – I have actually been diagnosed since we did that episode. 

Austin: Ah, did you really? 

Lauren: And now – 

Austin: Okay. 

Lauren: I did actually, I was like, kind of bit the bullet and went through with it. 

Austin: Started you on a journey. 

Lauren: And seeing that unraveling and being like, oh, wow, yeah, that was a lot of coping strategies in place –

Austin: Yeah. 

Lauren: – building around that. But 

Austin: Coping strategies are the... And even those can be gifts in disguise, yeah, you have to find a writing process that lets you show up at your best and not at your worst. 

Lauren: Right. Well, the output was worth it for sure. 

Austin: Thank you. 

Lauren: Free Money's awesome, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next. 

Austin: Thank you. 

Lauren: That's gonna be really cool. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this with me.

Austin: My pleasure. 

Lauren: I have one more question for you. 

Austin: I’m ready. 

Lauren: How do you pronounce this word? 

Austin: Depends on who I'm talking to. So if I'm in Tennessee I call it a niche. If I think I'm going to be judged for talking a bit more slowly, or if I'm outside of the United States, I'll say niche. 

Lauren: Fair enough. 

Austin: So that's a wonderful non-answer for you. How about that? 

Lauren: No, no, no, that's fair. That's a good one actually. Matt and I debate this regularly, so. 

Austin: So do you say Reese's or Reese's? 

Lauren: Reese's. 

Thank you. 

Lauren: Yeah. Because – 

Austin: Because you're not a crazy person. 

Lauren: Because it rhymes with pieces. 

Austin: Yeah. 

Lauren: Why would they, they call the candy Reese's Pieces? 

Austin: And we don't call the actress Reese Witherspoon. 

Lauren: No. 

Austin: Megan. Is my wife's name. This is a 15 year debate now. 

Lauren: I understand entirely. Well, I'll forgive you for not saying niche all the time. Because we agree – 

Austin: Niche. 

Lauren: Because we agree on Reese’s. 

Austin: What's your niche? This is my pitchfork. Now I'm just making fun of my people. 

Lauren: You're doing great. It's fine. I'm from Long Island, so I'm fully aware of the accent – 

Austin: Yeah, you’re like. 

Lauren: The accent situation is not something I have a leg to stand on. 

Austin: Insta-judged all the time. Yeah. Just because I sometimes say y'all. 

Lauren: It's fine. I worked that y'all into my vocabulary really quickly. That was – immediately, as soon as I moved to North Carolina I was like, let's go. 

Austin: Y'all respects no regional boundaries. Everyone loves it. 

Lauren: It's so useful. Well alright thank you so much.

Austin: Thanks for having me. 

Lauren: This was great.

[18:15] - Lou Mongello on the Value of Community and Authentic Relationships

Matt: So we're sitting here with Lou Mongello, one of our favorites. We're just finishing up CEX 2025. We're asking people some questions about their entrepreneurial journey, how they got to where they're at, especially those of you that have been in the game for quite some time. We have a lot of people that listen to our podcasts that are newer to it, but you've been in it for quite some time. Started out as an attorney, made the right move and stopped doing that. Moved down to Florida, made another good move, started creating Disney World content, which was the best move. But as an entrepreneur, as a content entrepreneur, somebody who's built a business now, like a lifestyle that you wanted from content, from these things, what's one thing that really surprised you along the way as you were doing this, as you were building this? You know, and you talk a lot about also how you built things, you had this crazy spiderweb of all these things you were doing and then you simplified, but what's one thing you learned that was surprising to you along the way? And I'm sure there was a thousand. But like, what's something when you were just like, man I would have never thought that that would be the case. Whether that was something to do with an audience or a piece of content or something that might help somebody that's getting into this avoid a potential pitfall or... 

Lou: You know, I think it's – I think it’s community. I know it's starting to become sort of a marketing buzzword and it shouldn't be. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lou: Because it's about people. It's about human beings on the other side of that download, that like, that follow, that share, whatever it is. When I first started out, to give you an idea of just how long I've been doing this, it was pre-social media, right? So I had a discussion forum on my site, never thinking that… I thought I was the only Disney fan that was a semi-adult sitting in his basement. And then when like twenty-nine people showed up, signed up, I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then it grew to like one, five, ten, twenty, fifty-thousand, I'm like, wait a minute, there's something here. And I always say like, you know, [] I create content in a lot of different ways, and the podcast is the heart of what I do, but the community is the soul. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lou: And I've really come to learn and try and teach other people the importance and the value. And I hate to call it the ROI of community, but creating those one-on-one relationships at scale.

Matt: Yeah, it does feel weird sometimes to use business terminology when you're talking about relationships and community, but that's the other side of it, right? Like there has to be an ROI there. 

Lou: Right. 

Matt: And again, sometimes we say things like, I hate to say ROI or like this or that and the other, that's what it is. But the ROI can be measured in relationships – 

Lou: Yeah. 

Matt: – and what comes from those relationships. 

Lou: It's funny because when I give presentations, not just at conferences, but I want, for example, if I talk to corporations and do corporate events. 

Matt: Yeah.

Lou: You know, I have to talk about ROI, but I'm using the word love in there. And sometimes they seem like they're in conflict with each other. And I'm like, no, you've got to love on the people and create those relationships. And again, a buzzword, but they need to be authentic and meaningful as well. 

Matt: Now you have an event of your own, right? So we're at CEX right now. Obviously we believe in community. We're here. We're doing these things. But you also have your own event. And it's a smaller event. It's a little more intimate. I would say it's extremely interactive. I've been there, it was awesome. Would you advise other creators to have their own event as well? Is that something where you're like, oh yeah, that's part of it. Like you should do an event, you have to do an event. Or would you say, maybe not so much. Like, where's your stance on that? 

Lou: Yes, like with an asterisk. Start by going to events. I think we sometimes, we're so busy doing this – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lou: – we undervalue the importance of this. 

Matt: Is this in the frame? No, I'm just kidding. 

Lou: The face to face, the handshake and a hug, the meeting somebody and spending time with them, looking them in the eye. As I'm sure you know, creating your own event is not for everyone. 

Matt: It’s not. 

Lou: It is an undertaking. It does not necessarily equate to a windfall of financial return. Like anything else you do, your why has to be there, right? Why are you creating the event? If you're creating an event to try and make money, talk to other event creators first before you do it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lou: But if you're looking to try and create and help sort of be the broker of other relationships… I created my Momentum event as somebody who went to other events and was frustrated, not with the event itself, but with myself. Getting lost in that sea of two thousand people, trying to figure out what session do I go to, who do I go see, having that FOMO, and then coming home with that notebook full of ideas that sat on my desk and all of a sudden real life got in the way. And I still keep that notebook there, which has been there for ten years, as a reminder, you have to put things into action. So I'm like, no, I want to do something different. I'm an introverted extrovert, even though I'm a podcaster. 

Matt: Same.

Lou: So I said I want something where you're not gonna get lost, you're not gonna sit in the corner, you're not gonna eat by yourself. So I'm like, I want one room so you don't have to make a decision. And fifty people, so you don't feel lost. And it's a workshop, so you do the work in the room. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lou: Every presenter, it's not just presentation, presentation, presentation, it's presentation and then you do the work. And we help facilitate that networking and relationships. And by the time you leave after four days, you are in a far different and far better position than when you walked in the door. 

Matt: I think the most important question we probably should ask you…favorite Disney movie? 

Lou: I think Mary Poppins is a near perfect movie. 

Matt: Bro. I would – 

Lou: We did not plan this ahead of time. 

Matt: I would shut it down right now, but I actually do have one more question for you. But listen, we're there. Yeah, okay. Well, it's a toss up for me, Sword in the Stone and Mary Poppins. 

Lou: Wow, nice. 

Matt: And as a kid I had a huge crush on Julie Andrews, so Sound of Music Mary Poppins like, I wasn't out being tough with my friends that's – I was at home watching those things. To this day, still. But the other question is: do you pronounce niche or niche? 

Lou: Niche. I mean niche.

Matt: Cut.

Lou: I mean niche. 

Matt: Cut. 

Lou: We were so close. Yeah let's just let's just end on a high note with Mary Poppins and Julie Andrews. 

Matt: Listen, thank you for talking to us. Lou Mangello has a lot of different things, and you can find them, WDW Radio, your podcast, Momentum, the workshop. We will link to all your stuff in the podcast show notes, but anything you want to say before you leave CEX? 

Lou: Thank you. 

Matt: Oh, not to me. 

Lou: Thank you and your team for what you guys do. Since the very first time I met you, like I've just, I've dug this conference. I was going to come back, whether I was a presenter or not. And I hope you – 

Matt: Oh, we could have gotten you for free? I’m just kidding. 

Lou: Well, look, I hope you and your team realize just what a positive, meaningful impact you are having on every single person that walks in this door. And that, you know, you are the pebble, and you have that ripple effect because the things that they're gonna take from here, how they're gonna impact other people, it goes a long way. So thank you guys for what you do. 

Matt: That's awesome. Thanks so much. 

Lou: Yeah, absolutely.

[24:41] - Julia Levine on Building Your Content Pillars

Lauren: Hi Julia, thank you so much for being here.

Julia: Thank you for having me. 

Lauren: Absolutely, of course. Right here at CEX where I was in your fantastic session earlier today. I can't wait to like, go back and take some of the stuff that I learned in that and apply it. By the time this episode comes out, I will have done some of the things that you talked about in that session. 

Julia: Aw, you are too kind. 

Lauren: It was great. It was wonderful. So for those of us that were not in the room, like everybody else listening to this podcast, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what your brand is, what you were here to speak about at CEX?

Julia: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Julia Levine and my brand is The Podcast Teacher. I teach online entrepreneurs how to start and then grow their podcasts so that they can use it as a marketing tool for their business and make money. 

Lauren: Love it, that’s awesome. And it was, can confirm, a very great and educational session. 

Julia: Thank you. 

Lauren: So your tilt or your niche as focusing on solopreneurs, or even deeper than that? 

Julia: Yeah, definitely B2B, mostly solopreneurs, although I do work with people who have a little bit of a team, but not like huge companies that have marketing departments and things like that. I really do a lot of work with coaches. So health coaches, life coaches, mindset coaches, things like that, and just people who are really super passionate about what they do. 

Lauren: I love that. That's my favorite thing about coming to these kinds of conferences is the people that – nobody's here because they think they’re going to get rich really fast overnight.

Julia: Right, yeah.

Lauren: It's because they are very passionate about whatever their subject and content matter is. 

Julia: Yeah, yeah. 

Lauren: So you're a content creator. You – I saw your episode list is well into the hundreds, if not more than that. 

Julia: Yeah, yeah, probably 150 or so – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Julia: – by the time people hear this, yeah. 

Lauren: Which is amazing. Incredible. What does that content ideation process look like for you? How do you come up with enough content for 150 plus episodes and counting? 

Julia: Yeah, so I'll tell you a secret, that you don't come up with 150 unique ideas. 

Lauren: Okay, good. 

Julia: You talk about the same things over and over and over. So you have kind of a handful of content pillars. So I teach three to five content pillars. And you kind of just rotate through those, and you hit a lot of the same things over and over. Because A, you're gathering new listeners all the time and so they may not have heard your previous content. And B, some, sometimes it just doesn't hit the first time you hear something. You need to hear it over and over. And so if I, as a podcast teacher, am constantly saying the same things, but in a slightly different way or with a slightly different example, then it can kind of build and kind of sink in as it needs to. But in terms of like the original ideas in the first place, I really listen to my audience. I see what people are posting questions about in communities and Facebook groups. I also do a series on my podcast called FAQ Fridays, and so I invite listeners to submit in their questions. And so the FAQ Fridays are super short, they're five minute episodes. And so I answer the literal question in that episode – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Julia: But that kind of gets my wheels turning of like, okay, where is this coming from? How can I go deeper, or with a different angle, and do like a really full episode on it? 

Lauren: Awesome. Do you repurpose your content? Do you also post blog posts or videos or anything or is it just… 

Julia: That is on the to-do list. 

Lauren: Heard. 

Julia: I will admit that it's a work in progress, for sure. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Julia: I fall into the trap of I prioritize my client work, I do still some one on one work too, do some production work, and so my podcast is always on the bottom of the list. The curse of your own content, I'm sure lots of people here can relate. And so I have lots of goals and inspiration, aspirations, but it's not really happening quite yet. 

Lauren: There's always time. 

Julia: Yes. 

Lauren: There’s got to be something to work towards, right? 

Julia: Yes, yes. 100% 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Julia: 100%.

Lauren: Yeah. Perfect. What is any piece of advice that you would give to somebody who was getting started with a podcast? Is there anything that's like, anyone who's listening to this who is so sick of hearing me and Matt talk that now they're like, I'm gonna start my own podcast and I don't have to listen to these two anymore. Do you have like, a go-to, make sure you do this? 

Julia: I mean, my philosophy is to put some time and energy into it. So there's a lot of people out there in the camp that are like, just start, just pick up your phone, record into your phone, start messy, learn as you go, type of thing. I don't fall into that camp because I think you only have one chance to make a first impression. And this is an asset for your business, and so you really need to put some time and energy and strategy into it. So whether that's taking a course, spiraling down YouTube, you know, some kind of…make it strategic. Learn about it and have some strategy going in. Don't just slap things together. Of course, you can fall into the trap of waiting till everything is perfect –

Lauren: Right. 

Julia: – and then never getting started. So I always tell people strive for that happy medium of be prepared and then call it good enough. Progress over perfection. Done is better than perfect. 

Lauren: I love it. I think that's great advice. And I will give the advice to our listeners that they should come check out your content if they think they're going to get started, or if they already are podcasting. Because I know I'll be doing that as soon as I get home. 

Julia: Thank you so much. 

Lauren: Yeah, of course. 

Julia: Yeah, I have a whole starter course about how to get started really step by step. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Julia: From I have no idea what I'm doing to we're launching the podcast. So it's a very comprehensive framework. Of course, I have a membership for once you've got it started and you want to grow, and a lot of that content can be found on my podcast as well, just kind of bits and pieces. So if you're more of a I'm going to pick everything together and kind of duct tape it together myself kind of person, then you know, have at it. 

Lauren: I’m way too type A for that, but I have a lot of respect for the people that can be that way. 

Julia: I’m the exact same way. I'm like no, no no, I have better things to do with my time than sift through a 150 episodes and kind of pull out all the nuggets.

Lauren: Yup, yup, yup. Wow, that’s great. Well thank you so much. 

Julia: Thank you for having me. 

Lauren: I really appreciate it. I have one more question for you. 

Julia: Sure. 

Lauren: And it is, how do you pronounce this word? There's no wrong answer or right answer. How do you pronounce this word? 

Julia: I typically say niche. 

Lauren: That is actually the correct answer. Thank you for playing.

Julia: My pleasure. 

Lauren: Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I will definitely have your website and podcast linked in the show notes. So anyone who's listening and wants to learn more can go check it out.

Julia: Fantastic. 

Lauren: Awesome. 

Julia: Thank you so much.

[31:57] - Joe Pulizzi on Making Your Content Entrepreneur Goals a Reality

Matt: All right, we're sitting here with Mr. Joe Pulizzi, the creator and founder of the Tilt and CEX. We're at CEX. And we wanted to sit down and ask a few questions of Joe, which he graciously agreed to do, free of charge. But most importantly, I think one of the things that you probably get asked a lot, I know you get asked a lot, you talk about it a lot, but for those who have not heard this anytime recently from you and could definitely benefit from it, what's one of the things that you would give, you know, some of the newer creators and solopreneurs out there who are just starting to try and build their business or their brand or their email list to really get started. Now that you've been doing this for what twenty, thirty, forty years? What's something that you would say like this is really something you might want to focus on as you start to build your own journey? 

Joe: Thank you, Matt. I think that you have to start as an entrepreneur and [] you have to think beyond, I want to do a creator business or I want to create all this content or I want to be successful on this channel. You have to start with what do you want as a person, as a human? And whatever that is, you need to write it down, you need to review it on a regular basis. It's just basic goal setting strategy because as an entrepreneur, as a content creator, you're going to get hit with so much negativity. Inside yourself – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: – you're gonna feel that I'm not worthy. Where do I get the right to talk about these things? So you have to remind yourself and teach your brain, okay, I can do this. I do want to live a better life. I do want a better life for my family. I want to create generational wealth. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: You have all these thoughts in your head. It's like, okay, let's slow down. What are they? 

Matt: And that’s not easy, right? 

Joe: Let's write it down. No, it's not easy. 

Matt: To sit down and think about what you want as an entrepreneur or creator. What was that process like for you? I couldn't sit down right now and tell you what do I want out of the next ten years of my life or the next five years or the next three years or, you know, starting a journey. There's probably a process or something that helps you. Not a formula, but how did you come to that? How did you figure out what you…

Joe: Heavy doses of Brian Tracy cassettes in my car as I was traveling from place to place.

Matt: Okay. 

Joe: I had enough mentors in my life that basically taught me, Joe, if you can't write it down, you can't have it. And I'm like, what does that mean? What are you talking about? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: You have to know at some point. And by the way, we're all fiddling around trying to like, what do I want for my life, my kids, my relationship – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: – those types of things. And that's why I always recommend, look, get away from the devices for a while, get away from watching something else, get away from all media, and spend some time with just you and your thoughts, and think about…look, we're only here for a very short period of time. How do we want to make the greatest impact on the people that we love? So, it's deep thoughts. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: But you have to spend, and by the way, it probably took me thirty-seven journals of scribbles to get to the point where I said, okay, here's my physical goals, here's my spiritual goals, my mental goals, my career goals, my financial goals. And I was able to, over months, and by the way, these change all the time –

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: – as they do with you. It's like, oh, here's what I want. And then I keep telling myself that. And then I'm like, okay, I am what I do. I am what I repeat. So I wanna repeat these things over and over again. And by the way, then you take that into being a content creator. You're like, okay, well, what do great creators do?

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: They consistently deliver amazing. content experiences to a very targeted audience. Great, that's what we want to focus on. Who is that audience? And you're asking more questions. Well, is that a target audience that's really, is that who I want to talk to or is it somebody else? 

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: Is that where I have differentiation? I don't know. So it gets into those questions, but I always like starting with the base, like, why are we here? What do you want? And then you're like, you know what, being a content entrepreneur, it's a pretty good life. How do I do that? How do I live without having somebody to tell me when to go to work, when to leave, all those types of things? I can spend time with my family. And I – 

Matt: But that's a broad statement, right? Like, content entrepreneur, I wanna be a content entrepreneur. So having that goal is important. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Matt: Because just saying I wanna be a content entrepreneur and have all this freedom and do all these things, that's really broad. That's like me going to a tattoo artist and saying, yeah, do whatever you want. Just put a tattoo on me. Like there's gotta be some of those guardrails there. There's gotta be some narrowing of that direction, that vision, right? And that's where that goal – 

Joe: Yeah. 

Matt: What was one of your first goals, that when you went through this, where you really were like, yes, this is a goal that's very important. I'm going to take steps to achieve this goal. 

Joe: So I started with a blog that was my go-to platform. And knowing the great writers, if you look at Stephen King or Patterson or whatever, it's write every day. So I was like, okay, well, how do I become a great writer and can share some of my thoughts through writing? Well, I'm going to get up every morning. Before I do anything, I'm going to write. And by the way, it doesn't have to be a journal. It doesn't have to be a 2,000 word blog post. It could be an idea. 

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: It could be a thought. So you always want to start the day with that. And then once you get past that, like, oh, I wrote today. Okay, tomorrow I'm going to write two sentences. Next day, five. And then you're like, okay, now I'm going to write 500 words today. We joke about my novel, The Will to Die, which I wrote in 2018. It was very hard for me to start writing fiction. But I had to say, I'm going to write for – 

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: – Sixty minutes every morning until I get this thing done. And I just committed to doing that. I'm somebody that writes when they get up in the morning. And I wasn't that. But I'm like no, what do amazing fiction writers do? They get up in the morning and they write first thing. 

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: That's what I'm gonna do. 

Matt: That's a good example – 

Joe: And three months later I had myself a draft. 

Matt: Yeah, that's a good example of you getting outside of your comfort zone and needing that goal to do that because up to that point you've written nonfiction. Which is very different than writing fiction. 

Joe: It’s very different, absolutely. 

Matt: And so having that goal helps you move past that uncomfortable state of like, I don't know how to do this. Maybe some imposter syndrome there as well like – 

Joe: Maybe? Oh my god. 

Matt: I'm not a fiction writer. 

Joe: I still don't – The hardest thing I ever had to do was – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: – was write a novel. And that was the challenge to myself. I'm like, I don't know how to do this. I can write you a nonfiction blog post right now, but I have to make up characters in a world. This is something I'm not used to. So. 

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: And I'm still probably most proud of that book of anything I've done. 

Matt: That's great. For somebody who struggles with setting a goal and sticking with that goal, such as myself, what was some of the motivation that you would use? Because I know you've had some lofty goals to get you where you're at, right? You talk often about some of your Big Hairy Audacious Goals and the whole, the number that you had written down, right? 

Joe: Sure. 

Matt: And you look at that number every morning, that's what I, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's where you wanted to exit that first business at. 

Joe: That's right. 

Matt: There was this number, right? Like, was that the motivation or were there other things or was that just one piece of a larger sort of spiderweb of motivational components that helped you keep going to hit these goals, to build that business, to achieve what you wanted to do, which was ultimately freedom. 

Joe: It's actually, I mean, the long story short, it's actually really simple. I spent – 

Matt: Oh good, cause I like simple. 

Joe: I spent the first six to seven years of my kids’ life on the road. And I said, I need to find something where I'm going to free up time – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: – to be with my family and not live on somebody else's time. What do I do? And then I did the thing. I'm like, well, what does that mean? And how big does the business have to be? And whatever. And I got to a point where… Okay, well if I can have an exit at this, at this moment in my life, I will have all this time to spend with my kids. Not only through the process, which I made time for my kids and family, but also when my kids are in high school, I want to go to everything.

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: I don't want to miss one thing. And then I worked it backward and said, okay, here's that thing and then what does that mean? 

Matt: Reverse engineered it. 

Joe: Here's the Big Hairy Audacious Goal. 

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: And then you say, what are the habits that I have to make as part of my life to reach that goal. What is a person who successfully exits in 2016, what does that look like? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: And I go back, okay, that means I have to do this in the morning. That means I have to eat these kinds of things. That means I have to make sure I read these kinds of books. And I said, I wanna look up to that guy –

Matt: Yeah.

Joe: – in seven years. And of course, actually, as I'm saying it, it sounds easy. It's incredibly difficult to do. But you just take the – 

Matt: I was about to say, you said this was simple, but I'm sitting here thinking, well, yeah. 

Joe: But the simple part is – 

Matt: The concept.

Joe: It's why.

Matt: Yeah. 

Joe: I want to spend more time with my family. 

Matt: There you go. 

Joe: And then you say, okay, well what do I have to do to get there? 

Matt: Yup. 

Joe: And then you lay it all out. So find – as Simon Sinek says, what's your big why? Find your big why, then from your big why comes your big goal, and then from your big goal is like, okay, what are the things I have to do every day to get to that goal? 

Matt: I love it. That's great. That's really good. So we have one really important question that we need – 

Joe: Sure. 

Matt: Joe Pulizzi, the Godfather of Content Marketing –

Joe: Yes. 

Matt: – to answer. There's an age old debate. Are the riches in the niches or are the riches in the niches? 

Joe: Who are we talking to? 

Matt: Right now we're talking to you. Do you say niche or niche? 

Joe: I say niche. 

Matt: Son of a b****. 

Joe: And I'll tell you why. Because when I went to Europe I said niche and it disappointed a lot of people. That's why I said it depends on who your audience is. You can go around the Midwest. 

Matt: In Cleveland – 

Joe: And you can say – 

Matt: – do you say niche or niche? 

Joe: I say niche. I say niche. 

Matt: In Cleveland? 

Joe: I say niche. I absolutely do. 

Matt: Cut. We're done. This guy's a clown, we’re done. 

Joe: No. It's absolutely. I – The origination of the word was pronounced niche and we as Americans started using niche.

Matt: You see this? You see this? Hey. Means nothing to me anymore. 

Lauren: Well, I made Joe one. 

Joe: The saying is valid. It's riches in niches. 

Matt: No, it's not. 

Joe: Yes it is. 

Matt: That doesn't rhyme. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Matt: There's no alliteration there. That’s terrible. I hate this interview. 

Joe: I guess I picked – you chose poorly. So that's what that is. 

Matt: All right. 

Joe: That’s good. 

Matt: Thank you for sitting down with us. 

Joe: That’s good. 

Matt: Appreciate the time. 

Joe: As always, I love chatting with you. 

Matt: Appreciate everything. Thank you.

[41:48] - Robbie Fitzwater on How to Use Customer Data (and How to Get Even More)

Lauren: So this is a really exciting guest interview for me, because Robbie, you are a little bit famous on this podcast already. This is Robbie Fitzwater, famously the creator of the incredible MKTG Rhythm calendar that we showed off in a recent episode.

Robbie: It's an honor to be here. It's exciting to be here. And yes, you guys were a lucky recipient of the 2025 MKTG Rhythm calendar. 

Lauren: It was – 

Robbie: There's a very real chance you're going to be on the 2026 list too. So my team gets to pick our client gift every year. Typically I go with – the goal is as self-deprecating to me as possible. That makes me happy. So like, first year with socks, one year it was a dart board with my face on it, which was wonderful. And then you guys got the calendar. So the calendar is the new one this year, and it was kind of cool that we got, we're able to like use Lulu to publish the calendar. And it actually kind of helped out in a few other ways too. Testing out Direct and understanding that side of things, so. 

Lauren: Well I love to hear that. 

Robbie: Yeah it's always fun. And then also Matt and Lali actually have – 

Lauren: The blazers – 

Robbie: – blazers with my face on them. Because Matt said in our kickoff call that he would never wear a blazer and I challenged him to that. So –

Lauren: It was…

Robbie: Trying to have some fun.

Lauren: I mean, they've all been incredible. Huge fan of all of them. And Matt and Lali did wear those blazers to your session last year at CEX. So…

Robbie: That was when I peaked. That was when I peaked. Everything from that point on has been downhill. But that was a peak. 

Lauren: Well.

Robbie: For me. 

Lauren: I mean, it was a pretty good peak, honestly.

Robbie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Lauren:  At that point. 

Robbie: Yeah. 

Lauren: But it was incredible. And looking forward to seeing whatever happens this year.

Robbie: We'll see what happens. 

Lauren: We'll see. You're giving a session tomorrow. 

Robbie: It'll be really fun, I think, talking a little bit less like, specifically on email marketing this year and talking more about like, how to use the data you have and how to also capture more data. When I say data, it's like, basically first-party data that we can use, any business can use in any way, and basically like, trying to use that to customize experiences to make them experiences really highly contextual for individuals. It sounds like, super lame and super boring but like it's a harder and harder ecosystem we live in, because everybody has so many different things coming at them from every direction and everybody thinks of the hero in their own journey. If we can make them feel like we see them, we appreciate them as the hero in their own journey, that's a win for them and it's one for us, because we can differentiate ourselves from like, mass marketing with like, a lot of good personalization. 

Lauren: Right. 

Robbie: So we try to do that through like, collecting data, asking people why they're purchasing, what goal they're trying to achieve, and ideally using that to hopefully have some fun with things. So like, I don't know. It sounds super lame and super nerdy – 

Lauren: No, it doesn’t.

Robbie: Again, hopefully should be fun. 

Lauren: I mean, I'm somebody who if you had told me ten years ago that I would be this invested in data and metrics, I would have been like…I don't know who you're talking about, but surely it's not me. 

Robbie: I mean – 

Lauren: But I do think they're so incredibly valuable. 

Robbie: So, so like, we always, from the ecommerce perspective, like we mainly work with ecommerce groups and like, for them, their platform that they need to like, become less dependent on is Amazon. Like, everybody's trying to like – it's trying to clean things up, become less dependent on Amazon, not riding the Amazon dragon as much as they should. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: But it is like, a problem. Because like, if somebody purchases on Amazon, they're not your customer, they're Amazon's customer. And like, we have no data to like drive the repeat purchase from them. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: So like, if I'm again trying to grow my business and I don't have a lot of that data, it's tough. But like, the reason they can purchase from us is like, if they have an irrational relationship with us from a first party perspective, like the content side of things is there. We're adding value beyond the transaction through content. And also getting them back in because like, they feel like we know who they are and we appreciate them. Like, hey, if they've ordered three times before, like treating them like a third time purchaser. They're not a new person, it's just like a mass individual. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: So those are the ways that businesses can differentiate themselves and hopefully have some fun doing it. Because we can do some like, crazy shit and like, have some fun doing it. And that's where like the real magic can happen for businesses, is when they think creatively about like, how they can use the data they're getting and also ask for the data they want to have. And also sometimes we even use it to like, use this to inform the products you're going to introduce next year, or how do we use it to build our ads more effectively? Because we can ask these people like, what worked about this for you? Or what, what about this ad poured salt in the wound that you have here? What pain point were you trying to solve with this? When we can do that, we can start to be a little bit more strategic in the way we use our own channels, because it's going upstream into business strategy. 

Lauren: First of all, I got to say thank you because I love when somebody else validates a point that I've made over and over and over again. Something we've talked about a lot on this podcast is specifically with Amazon, because obviously in publishing, that's a huge – but clearly it's something that a lot of different brands and businesses, of not just publishing, but all different types of industries, are working around. It is literally, we make the point repeatedly of: they're not your customers. If they are buying from–even if they're buying from you on Amazon, they're not your customers, they're Amazon's customers. 

Robbie: And it's like – It's hard to wrap everybody's mind around. And it's so painful because like, again, for ecommerce brands and ecommerce groups like, they're really good at making beautiful vending machines. They're great at like, high level first time transaction sales. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Robbie: First time transaction sales, and like, they can grow their business so much faster if they drive repeat purchases. And also those repeat purchases are coming without an acquisition cost on top of it. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: And generally, if they can do that, they can also increase their average order value. So like, all of those grow the business and grow the pie. But like the new customers is such a sexy topic for everybody. They just want to see like, that top line, that number, number, number. And where like, the top line doesn't reflect the bottom line in a lot of those cases. And then like, you're just bleeding money to Amazon. 

Lauren: And for what? 

Robbie: It's painful. We deal with that a lot. And it's like, sometimes having interventions and sometimes like, getting them off that - getting off the hamster wheel. And like, again, it's a necessary evil to some groups and some brands, but you don't have to be a one trick pony and like, having ways that we can bring them across and create an international relationship with our group, that's a win for everybody. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: That's where helping to educate and inform around those topics helps everybody win. And then a lot of stuff is really fun because you get to know your customers better. So that's the areas where it's really fun, it's really exciting to do. For us getting to work with creators in that space, it fits naturally and so much of everybody's business can improve from this. 

Lauren: Absolutely. For people listening that are still in the early stages of – or like, even just wrapping their head around the idea of treating their content as a brand or whatever, is there somewhere that you would recommend they start in terms of data gathering? Like we're not quite at the level that we're getting really involved with data collection, but like, here's one piece of data that you should have? 

Robbie: So we always like to understand like, what is the primary segmentation variable? Like what's the North Star that, if you can understand that, you can understand like, what they're going to need. So like, for a lot of businesses, it's like, hey, are you purchasing for yourself or are you purchasing as a gift? That's a really distinct difference between what everybody's gonna need along the way. If you're purchasing for yourself, that's again, a different level of information. If you're purchasing for a gift, and then who are you purchasing for? I don't know, I always use the example of like, children's toys. We have a few toy brands –

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: – that are our clients, and we understand it's just a parent, a gift giver, or a kid-ult, which is a really fast-growing category of adults who like purchasing toys, that are adults doing LEGOs, adults building things. It's a flow state activity. 

Lauren: I have over 300 Funko Pops. I unfortunately do, in fact, fall into the category of adults that buy some type of toy. 

Robbie: Which is wonderful. If makes you happy. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: You do it. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: Do it. But that's the kind of the, what is your primary segmentation variable, and what can you like, derive from that? And then that helps you like, dictate the experience you want to create for them. So like, we have coffee clients. Do they want unique coffee? Do they want classic coffee? Do they want decaf coffee? Those are all going to be very distinct different paths they're going to take. So like, what is going to help us to understand what they're going to need and help us predict what to serve up to them. Because within any of those verticals so many content creators have like, great content that's going to serve those different groups in different ways. And say hey, how do we like, serve that up to them in a meaningful way specifically for them? Even if something overlaps with those audiences, even just saying like, hey we know you're interested in unique coffee, here's an article we put together on like, how to grind coffee beans. Or saying like hey we know you like standard coffee, here's an article we put together on how to grind coffee beans. Like, acknowledging them and like, calling that out, they're gonna feel a lot more warm and fuzzy because like we made it for them as opposed to everybody else. 

Lauren: So it's personalizing the experience. So it's understanding what it is that your customers want from you, so that you know how to give it to them? 

Robbie: Yes. Yeah. 

Lauren: Love it. 

Robbie: It's like asking for that is such an easy win, and we see it done way too infrequently. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: And so like, what's that variable for your business, for those businesses, and how can they understand, how do they understand how to capture it? And it's not that hard just like, asking for it on the front end when you ask for their email. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: Or after they purchase. Like hey, who are you purchasing this for? It's really easy. And then you work that into your ecosystem and start to build around it. 

Lauren: Sounds like a good place to start. 

Robbie: Yeah, and it’s – 

Lauren: Especially if you're just getting started. Put that in place now.

Robbie: Yeah, it starts to snowball effect. And then that first party data that we can collect is really wonderful. And then over time, like, hey, once they've purchased with us enough, like, how do we do we ask for more? Or like, we may not ask for their birthday right away, but like your birthday, the birthday, or another peak moment, is another excuse to like, communicate. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: We use like, kids birthdays a lot. Kids birthdays, you can't ask for them like, right out of the gate because it seems like, a little bit creepy. But like, hey, what's the birthday of the person you're purchasing – like, after that like, first or second purchase and then like, a month before we send them an article like, hey it looks like so-and-so's birthday is coming up, here's how to plan for a birthday. Or here's some like, tips and tricks for like, a great birthday party. Also like, if you want to purchase a bunch of tubes, here's a…an offer. 

Lauren: Love it. 

Robbie: So they feel warm and fuzzy, and then you can follow up later on. But like, there's two times a year when people are purchasing toys, it's like kids birthday and the holidays, so if you can build a new peak moment into the system that's a win for everybody. 

Lauren: That's all we wanna do here, right? That’s all we want to do here is win. 

Robbie: So again I – again, don't want to get too nerdy, into the weeds but like, yeah it's fun. Could talk shop for days but... 

Lauren: Well I'm really looking forward to the full session so excited for the little sneak peek that we got here. 

Robbie: Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: Is there anything else that would be helpful for you guys? 

Lauren: Yeah, I have one more question and then I'm gonna let you go. 

Robbie: 

Lauren: How do you pronounce this word? 

Robbie: I struggle with this. I just like want to say it like if it has an s it's so much easier. 

Lauren: That’s fair. 

Robbie: Niches, niches. 

Lauren: So how do you personally pronounce it? 

Robbie: I’m going to say niche, in French. 

Lauren: I definitely heard you say niche yesterday in conversation. 

Robbie: I don’t – I go back and forth. I struggle with that. That's actually a really funny question. 

Lauren: That's actually – so I'm learning that a lot of people do – 

Robbie: Is go back and forth? 

Lauren: – Kind of alternate, yeah. 

Robbie: Now that I'm thinking about it. I'm like, I have to go back and forth with it. I say riches in the niches all the time. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Robbie: Like, that's an easy – I'm very one-dimensional with the one-liners, I say the same thing over and over. But like niche is like, hard to do. Niche. Niche always seems like, I don't know. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Robbie: Doesn't sound as good, doesn't flow as well as niche. 

Lauren: I have, I have caught myself lately, including several times on the podcast so I recorded evidence of this, doing exactly that. Where I've always said niche, I've always said the word niche, but because of how often Matt will say or the riches are in the niches, and I just, I simply cannot say the reeches are in the neeches. 

Robbie: The reeches are in the neeches. 

Lauren: So niches it is, but niche for sure. 

Robbie: Niche. I’m also from from the Midwest. Like, I think people from Missouri mispronounce words worse than just about any other state in the country so. 

Lauren: Well.  

Robbie: I'll throw that Midwestern plug out there. 

Lauren: Hey I mean, we've all got our – we were just talking to Austin Church about this, and he had a very similar answer from Knoxville. 

Robbie: Okay, okay. Makes me –  

Lauren: So, we're all kind of working with our geographical region. 

Robbie: That makes me feel a lot better. I like that. 

Lauren: Well, thank you for weighing in on this ongoing debate. I appreciate it. And also thank you so much for doing this podcast recording with me. 

Robbie: This is a treat. This was a blast. And yeah, looking forward to it. 

Lauren: Yeah.

[53:21] - Wrap Up

Matt: Hope everybody's enjoyed the last few interviews we've stitched together and had a good time with us. We've had a good time. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Did you have fun? 

Lauren: Yeah. It's been great. It's been great. I hope you learned something. I know we learned a lot. 

Matt: Too much. 

Lauren: And – definitely. There's going to be some information overload and processing time. But everybody that has been featured in this episode, we will have them linked in the show notes. 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: We'll shout them out in the show notes. So if you want to learn more about any of them – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Go check them out, for sure. They're some of the best and brightest in the content entrepreneur industry, community, space, whatever. 

Matt: Yeah, if you want to learn how to grow your business, this was the place to be. 

Lauren: And – 

Matt: These were the people to talk to. 

Lauren: Yes, these are the people. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I mean, I'm like three minutes away from launching my own business on the plane tomorrow, so you're gonna have to find a new host. 

Matt: I'm sure that won't be hard. 

Lauren: I don't know. Have you seen – 

Matt: Line forms to the left. 

Lauren: Have you seen the people on this team that like, run away every time I ask somebody if they want to be on the podcast? 

Matt: I'm sure that has nothing to do with me. 

Lauren: Fair enough. Fair enough. 

Matt: Alright. 

Lauren: Alright. 

Matt: Do all the things. 

Lauren: Yes please. 

Matt: Like and subscribe. Give us a review. 

Lauren: Leave us – 

Matt: Only if it's good. 

Lauren: Well, it depends on your definition of it. I was gonna say leave us a review or comment or both and let us know if it's niche or niche. Which I think you would argue that if we get reviews saying it's niche…might not be your definition of a good – 

Matt: They're not true fans of the show. 

Lauren: No, they're fans of me. 

Matt: No. That doesn’t even – 

Lauren: Are you Team Lauren or Team Matt? That's the real question. Let us know! 

Matt: Are you right or wrong is the real question? Thanks everybody for watching. If you made it this far. Or listening, if you weren't watching, if you're only listening and not watching, maybe you should go watch. 

Lauren: Yeah, you probably missed out. 

Yeah, I would say you did. Yeah. 

Matt: Thank you. 

Lauren: Yeah, either way, thank you. We will be back next week. And by we, I mean me and Laurie, not me and Matt. 

Matt: I didn't approve this. 

Lauren: You sure did. 

Matt: Oh my gosh. 

Lauren: So tune in next week to learn more about email marketing. And then Matt and I will be back after that.

Matt: Later.