Matt: Welcome back to Publish & Prosper. We are in a upgraded studio layout. 

Lauren: I would call it an upgrade. 

Matt: Yeah, it's much more comfortable. 

Lauren: Absolutely. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Anytime that I get to sit cross-legged instead of perched on a chair that I'm about to fall out of.

Matt: Cross-legged or cross-legged? 

Lauren: I don't know. I don't. 

Matt: I'm just curious. 

Lauren: I don't know. That's – none of those are accurate, probably.Look, it's a very… it's a very Monday Monday, okay? 

Matt: Crisscross applesauce? 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Never big on that one, actually. 

Matt: Whatever it is, these chairs are way more comfortable than our other ones. 

Lauren: Yes, they are. 

Matt: I'm happy about that. 

Lauren: That's–that's the point. 

Matt: Yeah. I guess that is the real point. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: So today we're going to talk about why we chose to purchase an event. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And a little more too. 

Matt: Well, yeah. 

Lauren: I mean, we're going to talk about that. But I think we're also going to talk about the event itself, and why it's really cool, and why we think that all of you should come meet us there. 

Matt: Yeah, why not? 

Lauren: I'm gonna call that actually point number one reason number one that you should come to Content Entrepreneur Expo this year – 

Matt: To get a bracelet from Lauren. 

Lauren: – because Matt and I will both be there. And you can meet us and maybe, maybe I will make bracelets for everybody. 

Matt: What do yours say today? 

Lauren: Mine today say A Long Time Coming, Professional Yapper, and French Fries. 

Matt: I really like the french fries one. 

Lauren: I thought you might. 

Matt: I feel like the long time coming one was a repeat from just the other day.

Lauren: It is a repeat. That's not a new one. The other two are new ones, but I can't remember how recently I've worn it. So it's possible. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: But the other two are brand new. 

Matt: Love the french fries one. 

Lauren: I thought you might. 

Matt: Yeah. Okay, so let's jump in. We did purchase an event. The event is named Content Entrepreneur Expo. This was an event that was started by a gentleman and his team. His name is Joe Pulizzi. 

Lauren: You may have heard us reference him on this podcast before. 

Matt: Yep. Yeah. He had started a brand around COVID called the Tilt and wanted to start an event to go along with it and started Content Entrepreneur Expo. The first year that the event ran was 2022. We were involved there, we'll get into all that. Joe's background and why the event and the brand, the Tilt, were even started, stems from his first entrepreneurial endeavor that some of our listeners may have heard of. Actually, it wasn't his first either, but probably his most successful to date. 

Joe and his team were responsible for the Content Marketing Institute, which started Content Marketing World, which is now one of the largest marketing conferences in the world, I believe. Definitely in the United States. It's a great conference. He was able to sell that business and that conference and exit from that–very well, I might add. And then I think, quite honestly, he just got a little bit bored. And much to his wife's chagrin, started another brand with another event to go along with it. And that's what became the Tilt and CEX or Content Entrepreneur Expo. 

So I think we'll jump right in. We sponsored the very first CEX. We were one of the first sponsors, I think, to sign on, if I'm not mistaken. We did sponsor the very first one. It was in Arizona, for some reason. Maybe to try something new because most of the time their events were held in Cleveland, which is the area where they're all from. I would say from the moment we got there, we kind of knew that the audience that was going to be at that event, the people we were dealing with in terms of the event organizers, I think we just kind of knew like, oh, this is something really different and really cool. And this is where we need to be. It was not a typical author conference. Like we were used to sponsoring and or attending. 

Lauren: Yeah, this was really one of the first, if not the first, content entrepreneur events that we went to, right? 

Matt: It's definitely one of the first –

Lauren: Or that we – 

Matt: – if not the first that we went to. I would almost go so far as to say CEX was probably one of the first, if not the first, in-person content entrepreneur events in general. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Especially ones that actually use that identity, right? Anything to do with creator economy or content entrepreneurs and things like that. Yeah, it was definitely the first one Lulu had been to. 

Lauren: I think just in general, because we, we focused a lot on author events before that. 

Matt: We did. Part of that was because there weren't a lot of events like this – 

Lauren: Right.

Matt: – out there. And we had already started really working closely with a lot of creators and content entrepreneurs, but there really weren't a lot of in-person events that we could find, if any. There were entrepreneurial events, but those often focused on other types of business verticals and were really heavy in the idea of building a business to exit. Which is okay, but it wasn't quite what we were looking for. So yeah, this really was kind of our first one. And really, I think, validated what we thought and felt was kind of the direction Lulu was going to be heading in and had already started heading in. And I think at that end there, we kind of realized like, yeah, this, this is the thing. This is it.

Lauren: Yeah, I remember when y'all first came back from that event, and I don't know why it stuck out to me, but. I just remember how excited everyone that went to that event was when you guys came back. Like you all came back with like, that was a really good event. We had a really good time there. We connected with a lot of really cool people. Like, people were excited to talk to us. It really stuck out to me as like, oh, you guys, you guys are fired up about this one.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And that’s a cool thing to see. 

Matt: It really helped that on the very first day–we hadn't even finished setting up our table, so I don't know that the event had officially started–a gentleman by the name of Daren Smith came walking up to our table. And he was like, Oh, Lulu. And we're like, yep. It was kind of a weird introduction. He's like, yeah, I use you guys for my book. We were like, oh, cool. You know, nice to meet you, whatever. He's like, yeah, and I'm giving everybody here at the conference a copy of it. 300-something copies. We're like, whoa, really? He's like, yeah. And we were like, that's really cool. And he's like, yeah, for sure. So again, if you ever needed an indicator that you were in the right place, one of the very first people we talked to not only was a Lulu user and was a core part of this audience and group, but he had arranged it so that he could give everybody that was attending the event a copy of his book. Which meant he had ordered 300 and some odd copies from us and they were there, at the event. That was, again, it was just like, that's too good to be true. This is…couldn't be more obvious. So yeah, we all came back really excited about it. 

[6:57]

Lauren: Yeah. So I guess I want to talk more about what drew us there in the first place. 

Matt: Yeah. I think that, again, we were already looking at these audiences a little bit. We were starting to understand that content entrepreneurs and people who create content as their core business were a huge audience for us. They only had a few real ways to try and monetize their content, or it seemed like that, especially to them. So a lot of them were trying to monetize their content through online courses and some were being very successful with it. They were making pennies on the dollar from YouTube sometimes, or other places, but I don't think any of them truly understood how well they could monetize their content using a book.

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: And what a book could do for their business or brand. So understanding that, that's when we started kind of looking at those audiences. Where are they hanging out? Where can we get in front of them? And again, that first day it was just, it was obvious when we got there, like, yeah, we're right. This works. 

Lauren: Yeah. Proof of concept is nice. 

Matt: So yeah, there's just a natural connection between content creators and the value that a book brings to their business and their brand, right? We talk about it all the time and what we're talking about is early days where we were proving that concept and the event was pivotal, I think, in us understanding that we were right, you know? When we were seeing it in practice, you know, and then the rest of that event, the next couple of days, same. Like, everybody we talked to was just either considering using a book, was already using a book as an asset or an authority builder or things like that, even for passive streams of revenue. So the whole event, all three days, it was just like, yeah, okay. 

And again, in marketing, you don't always get such a concrete stamp of validation on something you're doing, especially something that was a more of a long-term strategy for us, like pivoting to some of our audiences. More focus on entrepreneurs and content creators and content marketers and consultants and that whole nonfiction side of the world where you're creating content for a very specific purpose, oftentimes a marketing asset. So there was a lot of overlap there, yeah.

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. And it is something that we've continued to do, obviously. We've, we've been to many more events since then. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: As sponsors and also as attendees. And pretty consistently find that when we're talking to people at those events, it is much more the idea of like, yeah, I am… either I already am working on a book and it's exciting to meet you guys and learn more about how you can help me publish that book or people that are like, oh, I've never really thought about a book, but that is a great idea. And I can see how it's unfolding in my head right now, I have all these ideas for it and…

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And stuff like that, which is always really cool. I love going to content creator and content entrepreneur events. 

Matt: They're definitely, most of the time–hopefully we won't get any hate mail for this–but I think they're more fun than standard author events. 

Lauren: I think so too. And I say that as somebody who loves author events and used to go to them before I worked here. 

Matt: Yeah. From a personal standpoint, I find the content entrepreneur focused events, creator economy events, I find those a little more fun because I'm a little more interested in the nonfiction world of writing and content and I'm especially interested in the entrepreneurial side of it. But even from a business standpoint, it's just been more effective and more successful for us and we just have more fun there. So yeah, I would say I agree with that. 100%. 

Lauren: Well, and I think too, you know, it makes sense to me that you would naturally be drawn more towards these types of events than the author events. But for me, as somebody with a personal and professional background interest in going to author events and going to events like BEA and…

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: London Book Fair and stuff like that. 

Matt: BookCon. 

Lauren: BookCon. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: All those things. For me, what I think is really cool about these creator events and what I really enjoy from them is learning about things that I can make the connection to how they would apply to marketing and publicity for authors and kind of making those connections. And it's kind of cool to see that and learn that at these conferences. 

Matt: Yeah. The amount of overlap between, let's just say creators, cause that's a pretty broad term –

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: – and everybody has their definitions of what a creator is. But let's just say there's an identity of a creator. There's an identity of an entrepreneur. There's an identity of an author. In my head, they're all three the same. Or should be. And I think that's what we've been trying to do, now that we've come into this space, is show that there is…if there was a Venn diagram of those three identities, there is overlap right in the middle. And I think that's content entrepreneur. To a degree. I think authors are creators by nature of what they do, but I think authors are also entrepreneurs. Or need to be. 

Lauren: Especially self-published authors. 

Matt: That's right. A hundred percent. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. And even not self-published but in general, authors need to be entrepreneurs these days to also make a good living and make sure that they can continue writing, if that's what they want to do. So the overlap there, the Venn diagram of these identities is… It's very obvious to us. It's not always obvious to the people that we're talking to, you know and again, when we're at author events sometimes, and we're talking about very much business focused concepts and ideas around things that have to do with maybe selling your books direct or setting up your ecommerce store, things like that. This is stuff that authors didn't really used to have to deal with. And they don't have to now, to be fair, but they really should be. And now more than ever, the tools exist, the technology exists, the platforms exist, and they should be doing that, right? So to me, again, when all of the identities that are associated with this event, this concept, the things that we talk about at this event, are all in line with what we do, it was pretty much a no-brainer, right? 

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely.

[12:41]

Lauren: I guess really the point is, I mean, we talk about this event as a content entrepreneur event. Literally the description on the website is the event for content entrepreneurs and content creators serious about building an audience and driving revenue. So do you think that includes authors? Do you think that any authors listening to this podcast that are thinking right now, why do I care about going to an event for content entrepreneurs, should totally come to CEX?

Matt: I think the same reason that I've said a thousand times, and you've probably repeated it just as man: content entrepreneur is a broad term. You got to use something. We're not focused on just authors. We are focused on people who create content and want to make a living from that content. Right? So yeah, absolutely authors should attend because they're going to learn a lot of the stuff they need to know to help grow their business. You know, again, we've talked about this too. A lot of authors don't necessarily consider what they do a business. And they should. And then others are just starting to and really need some help. And then others have already been treating what they do as a business for some time now. And they could use a little bit of intermediate to advanced level help to get to that next level of their business, to grow their audience even larger. And we have all of that and we, we focus on all that. So should authors attend? Absolutely. But only if you are an author who is interested in making a business out of what you do. If you're, you know, a hobby author, then maybe not. 

Lauren: Fair. 

Matt: Unless you just want to get out there and meet some new people, in which case, absolutely. 

Lauren: I mean, yeah, it's a really fun event, if I do say so myself. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I have no involvement in organizing it. I just show up. 

Matt: And Lauren will make you a bracelet, so.

Lauren: I will. 

Matt: There you go. But again, like we talked about, I think regardless of how you identify, whether you identify as a creator, a content entrepreneur, an entrepreneur, an author, that venn diagram, you are in the middle, right? There's overlap there. We've seen it already. What we do at Lulu, what we've been doing, the audiences we've been tracking and working with, it's very clear. There's so many similarities to what all of these groups of people are trying to accomplish. So where CEX is is square in the middle of all of that. So again, in that venn diagram, that's where we are, right there in the middle. So yeah, I do think it's very reasonable for an author to attend. And in fact, we have, since taking over this event, added more content that is specific to publishing or selling books or using books as a marketing asset or how to get published things like that. So yeah, absolutely authors would find I think a lot of value in attending.

Lauren: I think so too. And I think that that's something that we're seeing a little bit more at the author events that we've attended recently. 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: I mean, we did, we just did our session at London Book Fair that was on relationship marketing. And I had a lot of people come up to us after that session and say, this is something that was really valuable to hear. And, you know, I know that I need to spend more time focusing on growing my email newsletter list or something like that.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I just don't really know how to do that. But it was really validating to hear you guys say that, yeah, this is something you need to be spending more time on. You need to do that. So if you are somebody who's listening to this and going, yeah, you guys have talked a lot about the value of having your email marketing list so that you have your owned list of followers and fans instead of just relying on social media. But I don't really know how to do that. Going to an event like CEX is where you learn how to do that, because you have people there that are going to be experts in these different subject matters – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – and are going to be able to teach you. We've done other episodes where we've talked about the value of attending events. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I'm going to plug some of those in here for sure. Like, definitely – 

Matt: I think events are probably the better way to do it. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: At least for me. Online courses are great, but I don't learn well that way. And I think that when you can find an in-person event that checks off some of those boxes for you in terms of adding value to growing your business, but then also gives you the benefit of networking and meeting other people that can also help you. Again, I think that's a no-brainer, so. Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. We also saw last year at Author Nation. 

Matt: That's right. 

Lauren: The keynote speaker at Author Nation last year was Andrew Davis. Who, if you've listened to us on this podcast before, both of us have talked more than once about how much we love him, how great he is as a speaker. 

Matt: Yeah, he was a CEX keynote. 

Lauren: He was the CEX keynote speaker. 

Matt: Several times over, yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. And, you know, I think that for us going to these kinds of events that we've been going to, marketing events, content entrepreneur events, whatever. We've seen Andrew several times at different events. We've seen different keynote speeches of his, like, we kind of know who he is. I think a lot of the authors that were at Author Nation, that was their first introduction to him. And he gave a great presentation that they all learned a lot from. 

Matt: That's…yeah. So again, when we talk about the overlap in the venn diagram, there's some credit due there to Joe Solari who runs Author Nation. That's his event now. And he was at CEX last year, and they sponsored a track at CEX, and they were able to see firsthand for themselves, Joe and his team, just how much overlap there really is. And we're able to come away from CEX and go into authorization track planning and take some of that with them, including Andrew Davis. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Joe Solari himself is an entrepreneur and has built several businesses and has a great business background and an extremely intelligent business mind. And so, yeah, again, I mean, that's, you know, look on the other side, on the author side, you have Author Nation, which is now probably the largest author event in the US, doing the same thing. And in fact, we share resources to a degree. So yeah, again, there's overlap. Should an author consider coming to CEX? Absolutely. Should some entrepreneurs consider going to something like Author Nation, because of the content they're now starting to incorporate into their programming? Absolutely, yeah. 

Lauren: I just think it's always a good idea if you have the opportunity to try something that is tangentially related to whatever your brand is or whatever your content creation is. Cause it's giving you an opportunity to get a different perspective on what you're doing. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And it's giving you an opportunity to say like, hey, you know, I feel like my social media content is getting a little stale lately, or I feel like I've just kind of been in a rut of like everything I'm doing is just the same thing. And it's the same thing that the other twenty authors in my immediate niche are all doing the same thing. And how can I inject some new life into this? 

Matt: Your immediate what?

Lauren: Niche. 

Matt: Gross. 

Lauren: So I, I think there's a lot of value in that. 

Matt: I agree. 

Lauren: And plus you'll get to hang out with us. We're so cool.

Matt: That's either a positive or a negative, but for now we're going to say it's a positive. 

Lauren: Some people, at least one person listening to this is going, I'm specifically not going to CEX just that I don't have to meet these two in person. 

Matt: That's my mom. 

Lauren: I was going to say it's my mom. No, I'm just kidding. My mom would love to come to this. Hi mom. She listens to all our episodes.

[19:32] 

Lauren: Can we go back a little bit to actually how we got here in the sense of how we decided to buy an event? 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: Because that was a fun kind of revelation when you came back and were like, hey, I know we were sponsors for two years, but we're going to level up a little bit. What kind of led you to that? And why did we decide to go that route instead of just continuing to sponsor this event that the Tilt was doing? 

Matt: So, Lulu had wanted to do our own event for some time. And as a brand that sponsors a lot of events and over the years, me specifically as a marketing manager, I always felt very strongly about events and the, the ROI from those. So it's something that we've always kind of had a pretty strong presence in. After the second year of CEX–again, it was very clear that we would always be a part of that event one way or another, typically as the title head sponsor, having as much coverage as we could. It just so happened that in 2023, after the second event, Joe Pulizzi, I think prematurely, decided he was going to exit from The Tilt and CEX. I was the first one he approached about that. And we talked about it internally. We were not in acquisition mode or growth mode, to say we weren't necessarily looking to purchase anything, but The Tilt itself as a brand was growing pretty strong. At that time, I think they'd had around 35,000 newsletter subscribers, and were doing some really cool things with this audience. But more importantly had just had their second CEX. It was successful. And we were seeing that the value there was continuing to grow. And so again, we just decided, let's go ahead and jump in here. Let's make this acquisition. Let's purchase The Tilt and CEX. Buying that event and that brand was great. Building an audience is hard. Everybody knows that. Building an audience for an event, as a brand, from scratch is even harder and costly. So the ability to go ahead and just buy one that had just had their second successful event, second successful year, I think things just worked out really well. 

And secondarily, the first year of any event is always the hardest. They'd already weathered that really well. We were there to see it. So yeah, when presented with the opportunity and things were able to be discussed and negotiated to a degree where both parties felt it was a win-win, we just felt that was a better approach than starting one from scratch. There were already teams in place for CEX in The Tilt. We didn't have to go out and build new teams or event management it was already in place. Shout out to Kelly Whetsell, she's a rock star. Anyways, it was just easier and it just made more sense to buy CEX instead of starting our own from scratch. And Chelsea's always wanted to start one and call it Lulupalooza, which I think there would be some trademark issues there. 

Lauren: Maybe. 

Matt: But I just felt like, again, I didn't want to do a Lulu event from scratch where, you know, a lot of the focus might have ended up on just strictly author-related things. CEX already had a loyal following, a great audience and great programming. And Joe agreed to stay on and do the programming for a few years after that, which was a huge help. So yeah, that's why we bought it instead of built it.

Lauren: I mean, I love it. I'm glad we did that. 

Matt: Me too.

Lauren: I am only tangentially connected to any of the planning at all whatsoever. I only really see what's going on and occasionally get tagged in on some review tasks for things, but I can't imagine how much more complicated it is when you're building it all from scratch. 

[23:02]

Lauren: But has it impacted, kind of, how you attend other events? Or what you like, what you pay attention to at other events now, or…?

Matt: It has, yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah? 

Matt: So I'd had plenty of experience attending events as an attendee, attending events as a sponsor. Sometimes as a title sponsor, sometimes as just a lower level sponsor. If I count work before Lulu, I've got eighteen plus years of that. So I had a lot of that. I had an understanding of, you know, as an attendee, as a sponsor, what I look for, what makes a good event versus a bad event. But now I had this lens I could look through of an event owner, or you know, somebody who puts on an event, an organizer, and it is a lot different. You do think differently now when you attend events or when you sponsor, I mean, we still sponsor a lot of events. That's just a big part of our marketing mix, right? That's something we believe strongly in. It's probably something we'll always do. 

Lauren: Great. 

Matt: So we're still at a lot of events just as a sponsor. Or even like our team will go to events sometimes just as attendees. Because it's a great event and we want to be able to get there and learn things and meet new people and network. But yes, I do look at events differently now from start to finish. So even right at the beginning at the registration process, like. I'm definitely more, I think, aware of everything. At registration, how many questions are they asking me? How nosy are they getting? Do they want the name of my firstborn child? How many of these questions are required versus not required? And then what's the cost? How much is it? You know, is there a price break if I'm taking a bunch of my team or not? What's included with…you know what I mean? Like from start to finish, you know, when we get there, I'm looking at things differently now. 

Lauren: A lot of like operations of the...

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Operations, there are operational stuff, but even, you know, things like quality of the fruit salad that morning for breakfast or –

Lauren: If they even offer – 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: – fruit salad for breakfast that morning. 

Matt: It's weird how you start to look at those things, but you also have to balance it out and you can now do that. If you've never run an event or owned an event or anything like that, and you've only attended, you only have that understanding. As an attendee, your understanding might be, well, this is a cool event, but the wifi sucked. Like, they must have cheaped out on the wifi. I'll never go back. Which sadly is things that we've heard from people about other events. Which I knew right away, okay. Don't cheap out on the wifi, right? 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: For our event, we make sure we have wifi that works. To a degree. But also as an event owner now I understand why some other events, the wifi is not so great. It could be a number of things. It's often one of the more costlier elements of an event. Which is crazy, because it's already installed in the venue. It's one of those charges where it's like, want to charge me how much for wifi that's already here? And there's a premium versus a standard? And let's be real here, folks. It's always the same, by the way. 

Lauren: Of course it is. 

Matt: But so, now I probably have a little more understanding and grace for an event where the wifi is maybe not so great. But yeah, you see things like that and it helps you kind of balance your perspective. And I think ultimately what it really does is it helps me just focus more on the quality of the programming content, because I don't get so hung up…you know? As an attendee sometimes you might be at an event and you're so stuck on the idea that… I don't know, you know, for me it'd be like the food sucks. Lunch is a big deal to me. 

Lauren: It is. 

Matt: Everybody here knows that, like.  

Lauren: Can confirm. 

Matt: Bad lunch is a bad day for me. So I have been at events before where the food was garbage, so I'm literally spending half my morning in sessions also trying to think about, or coordinate with some of you guys like, where are we going for lunch? Cause I'm not eating this lot.

Lauren: I absolutely can confirm I have seen Matt say I cannot come back to another session until we go get real food somewhere. And then it becomes a priority, you know, and we're missing out on–not we're missing out on the conference. But if they had provided a little better food, we would never have eleft the building.  – 

Matt: But it's, it's focus taken away from you, you know what I mean? 

Lauren: Yes, yeah. 

Matt: Everybody has their lunch issue, right? Whether it's lunch or wifi, it's always something. Nonetheless, you know. When you have that understanding of everything that goes into an event as an organizer and owner versus just an attendee, I think you can really set some of that stuff aside and go, okay, I'm here to learn, or I'm in this session for a reason. Let me focus on this because I know why the wifi is probably spotty. You know, it's not a big deal. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: Whatever. Or I know why these chairs are not very comfortable. Well, it's because the padded ones, they probably put a premium on those things of $5 per chair or something. You know what I mean? Like it's not…so yeah. You definitely have a different approach going into other events now as somebody who owns and organizes one. 

Lauren: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

Matt: So I think those were some of the things that after owning an event now, I better understand even for myself, but. Thinking about the programming of an event, that flow of programming and how it's designed, if there's tracks, what are those tracks and how relevant are they to the attendees? And within those tracks, how well do the sessions flow from a topical standpoint and who's speaking on them? A lot of these events–I was just looking at the roster for one before we came in here to record, that somebody invited me to, and I ultimately decided I'm not going to do it. As an attendee, because every session within the track that would have been most relevant to me, every session was put on by a sponsor speaker. Which, you know, sponsor speakers add value, especially if they understand the assignment is to add value and not pitch the whole time. But every session was put on by a sponsor speaker. And it was titled and described as what sounded like to me, just a big pitch session.

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: And so ultimately I realized whoever organized this event, whoever was putting this event on what they were trying to do was put together a massive event that would attract a ton of people, with this idea that we have a lot of big name brands and speakers that are going to be there and big party and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, none of those sessions were designed, I think, to add real value to…to somebody's career trajectory or what they're doing or what they're after. They were just big pitchfests for the sponsors. And when you see that happening, go look at the ticket price. I bet the ticket price is cheap because those sponsorships are extremely expensive. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: And that's why every single one of the sponsors gets a session speaking spot. Again, it's not always a terrible thing, right? Like at CEX, we have sponsor speakers. 

Lauren: We've given plenty of… 

Matt: Sure. We do it all the time – 

Lauren: Yeah, we. 

Matt: – as Lulu. But we know–and at CEX, it's also–the session is to add value. Now, if the value aligns with what your product is or your service or your platform, that's okay. But it's not a pitch session. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: You're not there to stand up on stage and pitch to our attendees for thirty, forty-five, fifty minutes, your platform and the pricing and the structure. Like that's just not what it's for. So yeah, I think there is value to be had as a sponsor speaker, or a session that's led by a sponsor speaker, but. So I definitely pay more attention to the programming and understanding, you know, what that flow looks like and how to add value. And then secondarily, I never thought about this because I'm an introvert. I never think about networking necessarily, but I realized how important that is for in-person events, as well as in-person events like ours, where it's a room full of entrepreneurial content creators who are there to try and further their brand and their business. And they want to learn from, from other people and they want to network. And so making sure you're providing a space for them to do that, but also time. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: You know, some of these shows, they pack in so many sessions and so many presenters that you get literally maybe five minutes in between. It's like when you were in high school – 

Lauren: And you're like, hustling the class. 

Matt: You get three and half minutes to get from one class to the next or you were late, which we all hated because then it meant no socializing in the hallway, right? My kids still hate that –

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: – to this day and they complain about it. So making sure that in between sessions, there's time to network and grab a coffee and you know, hang out right there in the networking area or talk to a sponsor if you wanted to, and go up to their booth and learn more about what they do or… Just creating that space, I think was really important. And understanding now more than ever when I'm at events where, where I see that that's not a thing and why that's ultimately, I think a failure on that event's part. 

Lauren: Well, and that is something, you know, joking aside about saying like, oh, you know, if, a good lunch isn't provided for us, we leave the building and we go out and get lunch. But like yeah, absolutely. The difference in those two scenarios is we are leaving the building and it's just our team leaving the building to go get lunch, which is, you know, we have a good lunch and we have a good time because our team actually like spending time with each other. So we usually have a good time at those things, but we are missing out on networking time in that moment, 

Matt: Yep. 

Lauren: As opposed to a conference where they are providing lunch and it's in a big room where also you're probably going to have some sponsors and like vendor tables set up and a bunch of big tables where everyone's just kind of sitting together and you have some opportunity to talk to each other. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: That's a really valuable conversation and networking. 

Matt: And it's not just our team, let's be clear. 

Lauren: Well, yeah. 

Matt: I mean, I've been to plenty of events where once lunchtime hits – 

Lauren: Oh. 

Matt: – people are just pouring out the doors. 

Lauren: Yes. Yeah, you see – 

Matt: So. 

Lauren: We see it all the time as sponsors when you can tell it's lunchtime at an event where they're not providing lunch because it's just a ghost town for an hour.

Matt: I'll tell you that we just recently, myself and Haley, came back from an event called Sponsor Games that Justin Moore does. And Justin was really smart in how he planned his first event. This was his first one and kudos to him, but he was really smart. And then I think he took in everything he liked about all the events he'd been to or sponsored or spoke at, and made sure he did not incorporate all things he didn't like, right? And one of the things that he paid very close attention to is the food. Specifically because he did not want people to have to leave his venue, leave his event – 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: – and then come back late and miss something or for whatever reason something happens and they don't come back at all or whatever that might be. So paying attention to those little details I think are key. And Justin actually, this was probably the first event I've ever been to that had decent coffee, but Justin took it a step further and he had a craft barista come in each day and bring their – 

Lauren: Fun. 

Matt: – their espresso machine and all this other stuff. And I mean, we had really good, legit coffee and lattes and stuff at that event. And it was for me, that's the other thing my team knows. Like, I need some good coffee man, or I'm not going to make it to lunch, so. 

Lauren: Can confirm. 

Matt: Yeah. I think if you pay attention to those things and you understand that they're little levers and buttons, you can push and pull to make your event more fun and more successful. think those are the things we're paying attention to now and understanding. Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah, I think so too. 

[33:48]

Lauren: So for everybody listening, why should they come to CEX? 

Matt: Well, I feel like we just spent the last forty minutes talking about that. 

Lauren: Okay, why should they come to CEX specifically this year in August of 2025 in Cleveland, Ohio? This specific event that's happening. Why should they come to CEX?

Matt: That's better. Okay. 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: I think there's a lot of reasons, many of which we just talked about, but I think the thing that we focus on the most, and the word you probably heard me use the most was value. Like Justin, we knew that if we were going to do this, we wanted to make sure that our event fell into one of those categories. It doesn't need to be the biggest event, right? But it has to be the most valuable. We’re spoiled, because me and my team have our company budget to work with and we can go to a lot of events. But for the average author, creator, entrepreneur, they might only get to go to one or two per year if that, because everything's coming out of their pocket. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: And it's not cheap these days to fly somewhere, stay in the hotel, do all the things you need to do while still covering your business and everything else to attend an event. So it's really important to us to make sure that people feel the value and the connection when they're there. And as such, we try to make sure we have the best speakers that are gonna come, what do they wanna talk about, what does their deck look like, how is this gonna add value to our attendees and their journey? This year we have some great ones again, last year was amazing, this year is even… I hesitate to say better, cause that's, I don't know how fair that is, but this year we have some great ones, again. We've got Wil Reynolds, he's awesome. Ann Handley is going to be there again, which is great, she's always fun and funny.

Lauren: Love Ann Handley. 

Matt: And talk about a gifted writer and speaker. I mean, I don't have to tell you like, Ann Handley’s awesome.

Lauren: Love Ann Handley. 

Matt: Jay Clouse is coming back again, and Jay Clouse is somebody who…everything he does is with intention, to add value. Everything. And he's very transparent about what he does. What's successful? What works? What didn't, why it didn't, you know, how much it cost him to fail that time and what he's doing to change it. So it's always great to hear Jay Clouse talk and give a session. You have other people like bigger names in the marketing world. Mark Schaefer, Robert Rose, these are people who bring value every time they speak and talk about various different marketing concepts, things that are gonna help you grow your business and grow your audience. I'm sure this year there'll be, you know, some sort of focus on AI, I would imagine. Mark just published his new book Audacious, which has some direct correlation there between AI and humans creating content and stuff like that. So I expect those to be really good. 

Lauren: Yeah, but I think those are like, I mean, yes, obviously. There's going to be some kind of specific topic that they're talking about. And you can find all of that, you can find our agenda for the event at the website that I will have linked in the show notes. CEX.events, events with an S? Yes. Okay. 

Matt: Yep. 

Lauren: But all of those are, first of all, people that you've probably heard us reference before on this podcast. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Second of all, all people that I don't need to know what their session topic is. I'm going to go see Ann Handley talk…if the session on the agenda is Ann Handley is going to read the phone book for forty-five minutes. I am still sat. I am in the audience. I'm there. Any of these people that we've, that Matt just said, those are all people that I'm going go see no matter what. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So it's exciting to have them on our... 

Matt: I guess that makes sense. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: I have mine too. There are certain people that if they're an event, I'm definitely catching their session. I don't care what the topic is. Because I know that they're either going to entertain me or add value. So I understand that for sure. But there's a lot of great…beyond keynotes and things like that. Keynotes are great. They're a little more inspirational than, than educational sometimes, which is fine. Cause I think we need a healthy mix of both. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: We need a healthy mix of education and inspiration, especially right now. But there's some really great sessions and workshops that are happening too. I know you have some favorites. I'm really looking forward to Andy Crestodina. I love to listen to Andy talk. He is always full of value.

Lauren: So, so great. 

Matt: I don't know that there is any single other expert on the topic of discoverability right now that does as good of a job as Andy does, in my opinion. But anyways, I know there's some others. Who are you looking forward to seeing?

Lauren: Definitely excited to go see Katie Brinkley again. 

Matt: Yeah, she’s fun. 

Lauren: I've seen her speak a couple of times, but she's great. And she's doing a session on social media, email, and podcasting strategy. So I will be taking notes for sure at that one.

Matt: We have Chenell Basilio this year. She's a new one for us as a speaker and as a workshop facilitator. But her session is…the title, I think, is really cool and knowing her it will be extremely valuable. It's Reverse Engineering The Most Successful Creator Businesses in the World. So there probably is some really cool stuff that's going to come out of that one. I think that'll be a lot of fun. 

Lauren: Yeah, I think that's going to be a great one. I think that's going to be interesting to see. And then the other one that I'm definitely looking forward to, it's not just because in his photo on our, on the event website, he's wearing a Disney shirt. But Paul Gowder is doing a session on leveling up your email marketing. Which, while I personally am not an email marketer for this podcast, we talk all the time about the value of email marketing. And that's something that I'm looking forward to learning more about so that I can share that with anyone who's listening to this who doesn't come to CEX. So I'll take good notes for all of you, promise. 

Matt: That's true. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: You'll definitely take good notes. 

Lauren: I will do that. But I mean, there are so many fun and, you know, some of the fun of coming to events like these too is like, the people that you just, you’re like, yeah, I love going to this session so I can see this person again. Or I love like, I'm going to be in Robbie's session. 
Matt: Well, yeah. 

Lauren: I got a seat at the table already in whatever session Robbie Fitzwater's doing. 

Matt: I have to be in there to heckle him. 

Lauren: Because that's fun. Yeah, of course. 

Matt: I have to give him a hard time. 

Lauren: You got to wear that suit jacket again.

Matt: I don't know about that. 

Lauren: Okay. That's fair. But you know, I think it's just really, it's, it's really fun to have these kinds of sessions that we can go to. Or these opportunities to connect with people that we, I mean, there's another one, another speaker at CEX this year is Lou Mongello. 

Matt: Oh yeah. 

Lauren: Who both of us connected with him at…

Matt: Podfest, yeah.

Lauren: Podfest two years ago. 

Matt: Several years ago. 

Lauren: Yeah. We met him and then it turned out he…he was already planning on attending CEX? 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: Or something? So then he was at CEX. 

Matt: I think he was either friends with Joe Pulizzi or knew of Joe Pulizzi – 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: – and CEX. Yeah. 

Lauren: So yeah, but that was like, just a fun… where we were like, oh, we were talking to this guy and we're like, oh yeah, we work for Lulu. We are doing this event ourselves – 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – and he was like, oh, I'll be there. And then wound up inviting you to speak at his event later that year. And now here we are a year later and he's speaking at CEX…

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: This year. Like, that's a really…like we've talked about the value of attending events as a way to grow your network and connect and network with people. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And that is a real time example –

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: – of how just exclusively through connecting with somebody at various events over the year, we've grown our network. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Which I would say is another very valuable part of going to CEX. I'm just saying. 

Matt: I think, you know, we could list all the benefits all day long, but 

Lauren: Yeah, for sure. 

Matt: You know even for somebody like me who networking isn't always easy especially at an event because, you know, as it gets later in the day my social battery is just more and more drained. But I think for events like CEX and others that are structured similarly it's just easier to network and talk to people. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Again when the conversations are really geared more of that nature. I don't know, I just find it more interesting and I'm more engaged.

Lauren: Yeah, I think so too. And I think that there's definitely…we see it happening all the time, I watch it happen in real time at events like this. Where you see people just strike up a conversation because…

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: It's relevant. They're in a session together and it's relevant. We are using Ecamm to record this podcast episode right now. Ecamm was a sponsor at the, at CEX last year and I was sitting next to Caleb Dempsey, who works at Ecamm at Robbie's session last year. I was sitting next to Caleb and watching how Ecamm was recording the entire session. And then at the end of it, I was like, oh, that's a really cool software. What is that? And now we are using this software. 

Matt: Yeah. 

[42:11]

Lauren: That is probably the last value add that I think I'm going to stick in here really quick, is that you get–not just networking with other creators and meeting other experts and other creators and stuff like that, but there are also usually vendors and sponsors at these events that might be able to share some really cool tools with you. So we have some cool sponsors this year that I think will be fun. 

Matt: I think that's another thing too though, right? When we talk about things that we look at now differently, like I can think back to past events and even now ones that I go to where, you know, I'll walk through the exhibitor hall or I'll take a look at who's there. And in many cases, there's a lot of sponsors that just aren't quite in line with the event or the actual audience composition. And so again, it becomes a question of, is that event just taking sponsors because they need the checks? Or are they actually curating sponsors who are going to provide the best value and the best products for their attendees? Do you understand your attendees well enough to know which sponsors will bring value, which ones are going to bring the tools that they need? And right now for content creators and content entrepreneurs and people, there are so many tools out there. Like, a shortage of tools is not the problem these days, right? 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: It's almost the opposite. Especially in this crazy AI race that we have. For anything I need done at this point, I know there's a tool out there that can do it. And more than likely there's a tool that incorporates AI into it that can do it for me. So it's not a question of, does the tool exist? It's a question of which one can I trust? 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: Of the 10,000 AI powered, let's say editing tools out there, which one should I actually trust? You can't trust any reviews online. They're almost all either written by a brand or somebody who's kind of being paid by a brand or something like that. You may get lucky and find a couple of solid reviews. But I've always found it helpful–and maybe it's just because I worked for a brand or work for a brand–but I've always found it helpful to be able to actually talk to people from those brands because I feel like I can get a better idea after talking to a few different ones. Like, which one do I better understand their value prop, their pricing, and which one's actually going to help me achieve what it is I'm trying to achieve? Versus trusting some AI-generated review online or some other sub-Reddit where those may or may not be humans with good intentions either. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: I don't know. 

Lauren: Well, and especially I think sometimes with events, you might get really lucky and actually get to see some of these tools in action. So you get to actually decide firsthand. Mighty Networks is going to be one of our sponsors this year and they are building an app for the event.

Matt: They are. Yes. 

Lauren: So we'll get to see exactly how successful that is. And that could be great if you're somebody who's interested in community building and launching your own community, that might be a really good opportunity for you to connect with them and see in real time how that works. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So that's awesome to see. Also, you know, you get some really cool swag. Just saying. I–look.

Matt: Sometimes.

Lauren: I'm just saying I got three different pieces of swag from Thinkific last year that I use…it's probably the three pieces of swag that I use most from any conference that I've ever attended. 

Matt: You know, now I have to call you on it. What are they? 

Lauren: The hats that they made. They had the creator hats. 

Matt: Oh. 

Lauren: Like the dad hats with the embroidery on them. And they also had the reusable foldable bags, like the ones that we did one year for...

Matt: Yeah.  

Lauren: London Book Fair. 

Matt: That’s right. 

Lauren: I always throw that in my suitcase when I'm going to events and stuff like that. 

Matt: That’s a good idea. 

Lauren: And then they did a crossbody, like just a plain black crossbody 

Matt: Ah, I remember. Yeah. 

Lauren: That just has their logo on it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And I use that all the time where it's something–sorry, no offense to them–but if it's something that I'm like, oh, this bag might get ruined and I’m just gonna bring this as a bag that I don't care about in case it gets ruined and it's just not a big deal. But it's actually held up really well and I use it all the time. So shout out to them and their great conference swag. 

Matt: Yeah. Well, we'll see what, what our sponsors show up with this year. 

Lauren: Yeah. Excited to find out. 

Matt: I think their goal should be to do better swag than we do. 

Lauren: I think so too. Challenge issued for–like in general though, or the swag we're going to have there?

Matt: Both. 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: I mean, that's something we've always tried to do – 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: – is always show up with the best swag at every event.

Lauren: Yes, it is. 

Matt: And we've been known for that. I mean, I've definitely had people comment that or email me afterwards or seen them at other events and like, what'd you guys bring this time? 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: What do you have this time? I don't know about the rest of you, but – 

Lauren: I've had friends of mine reach out to me on social media after I've posted something from an event and be like, yo, can you get me one of those koozies? Or like, can you get me one of those pins? Do you have any extras of those? So people that weren't even…aren't even in the industry.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Are just like yo, that stuff's really cool. Can I get some of that? 

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: So yeah. I guess if you want to see what swag we have at CEX this year, you're just going to have to come. 

Matt: For sure. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. Cause we're not going to tell you at the time. 

Lauren: Nope. Definitely not. You're going to have to be there. 

Matt: It's going to be a conference exclusive. It's the only place you can get it. 

Lauren: Ooh, we should definitely do something with that. 

Matt: We are. I just told you. 

Lauren: Yeah, I know. But like, I like that. I like that. We should lean, we should lean into that a little bit.

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: All right. 

Matt: We'll lean into it a lot. 

Lauren: Okay. Here for it. 

[47:20]

Lauren: Well, I don't know. I think that we did a good job of kind of covering CEX as a whole and why we're involved in it at all and why we think that anybody listening to this podcast… I think that's actually probably the summary answer to why you would want to attend a conference or why you would specifically want to attend CEX. If you've listened to this podcast, if you've listened to more than one episode of this podcast and thought that the information within it was valuable to you, not just because Matt and I are weirdos that like to ramble and you think we're funny, which you probably don't. That's okay. 

Matt: That was a generous description.

Lauren: I know. But if you're actually listening to it for the value add, then CEX is absolutely the correct event for you to go to because it's going to be just deeper dives into so many of the things that we've talked about on this podcast. 

Matt: Yeah, I mean, again, you know, we keep it relatively small on purpose. I say relatively, between 350 and 450 people. I don't ever see it getting bigger than that, to be quite frank with you. I think a conference takes on a different composition when that happens. And it's not always bad, but for us, I think that's where we're comfortable. And you know, we really do try to plan everything to bring value. So we're not going to have flashing neon lights everywhere and big, huge colorful banners everywhere. And, you know, fifteen different step-and-repeat photo opportunities everywhere. We choose to invest that money in other places, right?

Lauren: Like lunch. 

Matt: Maybe in lunch, but yeah, I mean, you know, I just, again, I think for us it's how much value can we, can we inject into this? Because I think that's where, that's where you create repeat attendees. That's where you're really creating an experience and not just some event where somebody is just going to go home and be like, yeah, I went, I don't need to ever go again, but you know, whatever, glad I did, I guess. We want people who are leaving the event somewhat sad, but also somewhat excited to come back next year. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Like sad that it's over, but can't wait for next year. And we've gotten plenty of that. And that's, I think that's really cool. 

Lauren: Yeah, we've definitely had people that are four time attendees. Soon to be five. 

Matt: Well, no. 

Lauren: Yeah?

Matt: This will be our fourth year. 

Lauren: Is it? 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Shoot. Okay, we've had people that are three time attendees. 

Matt: That–that is factual. I couldn't get behind the four time attendee one yet because it hasn't happened, but.

Lauren: Well, I'm sure there's at least one person who has already purchased their ticket who's been to the last three.

Matt: Well, yeah, we've already sold –

Lauren: So future four-time attendees. 

Matt: Yeah, I mean, tickets are on sale right now. 

Lauren: Yes they are.

Matt: They have been since Black Friday. and if you haven't got it already, you missed that Black Friday deal. But a little birdie told me there are a lot of discount codes you can find out there on the internet. So maybe some of these speakers that we just talked about have codes that they're sharing with their audiences for $100 off. So you might want to go check out their... 

Lauren: Maybe there's going to be one in the show notes of this episode. 

Matt: There might be one there, too. Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: But yes, there are already tickets sold. There are already people who have their ticket in hand. So they could say technically that they will be a four time attendee. Yes. 

Lauren: I think that counts. I–good save. 

Matt: Fine by me. I'm not going to argue it. 

Lauren: Perfect. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: All right. Well, hopefully we will see you at CEX this year. And if you need more convincing, let us know. Reach out to us. Send us an email. Connect with us on social media. Ask us questions. We'll tell you all about it.

Matt: I don't know how much more we'll be able to convince you, but you can reach out to Lauren. 

Lauren: Yeah. Reach out to me. I would love to tell you why you should be at CEX this year and I will make you a bracelet. If you reach out to me and you and I convince you to go to CEX, I will personally make you specifically a bracelet that I will wait and hold on to until I get to meet you there. 

Matt: I think that's a good deal. 

Lauren: I think so, too. But do you have anything else you want to add or you think think we've done it? 

Matt: I think we've done it. 

Lauren: All right, well. 

Matt: I've been wrong before, but I think we've done it.

Lauren: I think we've done it. So thanks for listening, everyone, and we will see you next week. 

Matt: Later.