Publish & Prosper

Can Books Add Value to Your Business (Beyond Just Revenue)?

• Matt Briel & Lauren Vassallo • Episode 54

In this episode, Matt & Lauren tell you why publishing a book can do more for your business than just adding a new revenue stream.. Learn how books can establish your expert reputation, connect you with new audiences, and strengthen relationships with your existing fans.


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Sound Bites From This Episode

🎙️ [7:36] “Throughout your entire business journey, there's always going to be a need in most cases to establish some authority in the area with which you actually do business, whether you sell physical products or services… One of the best ways to do that, obviously, is to have a book in hand, right?”

🎙️ [15:54] “So many people still to this day think that because they have a social media channel presence of whatever amount of followers, it doesn't matter that they're doing great, they're riding high and they've got a viable business. Wrong. 100% wrong. If that business is built on Instagram, then Instagram has a business and followers – you don't.”

🎙️ [25:38] “A book can be a great buy-in opportunity for customers to test the water with you, or for potential customers to test the water with you.”


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Matt: Welcome back everybody to another episode of Publish & Prosper. And today we're going to be talking about something that I love to talk about, but I talk about a lot and that is potentially how books can add value to your business. So using books as a growth tool for your business, not just as something we write for fun or entertainment.

Lauren: And also not just when we say adding value to your business, we don't just mean adding monetary value to your business. 

Matt: Correct. 

Lauren: There's, I mean, obviously we would hope that your efforts to publish a book will pay off for you quite literally, but we're going to talk about other ways too. Right? 

Matt: That's right. Yes. 

Lauren: Yes. Okay. What? Strong start. 

Matt: Coming in hot. Yup. 

Lauren:  I'm trying. 

Matt: No, you’re right. 

Lauren: I told you I'm really trying to warm up here. 

Matt: No no, you’re right. Yup. 

Lauren: Quite literally.

Matt: Yeah. Books bringing value outside of just a dollar amount. Yes. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: 100%. Or I should say a direct dollar amount. Right? 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: The idea for most people is that you write a book and you sell the book and you make money from the book. Outside of the world of fiction and the world of nonfiction, quite often what we see right now are people writing books. It's actually more of a business card or a gateway to other revenue. So the book indirectly is responsible for a lot more revenue than just the retail price of that book. 

Lauren: Right, exactly. 

Matt: Yep. 

Lauren: Yeah, we're adding value. We're adding monetary value, but it's… long lead? I don’t know.

Matt: So you can say long tail - 

Lauren: Thanks. 

Matt: - or you could say indirectly. 

Lauren: Okay. Sure. 

Matt: However you want to say it. 

Lauren: Either way, it's not long lead. 

Matt: You are correct. Both ways. Long lead can be a new term that you make up if you want. 

Lauren: Oh my God. I was reading a book recently and - 

Matt: Happy about that. 

Lauren: Thanks. And a character in the book said the phrase, I have that down cold. 

Matt: You're so full of it. 

Lauren: I am not full of it. 

Matt: Yes, you are.

Lauren: I am not. 

Matt: Then why wouldn't you have snapped a picture of it and texted it to me? 

Lauren: Sometimes I don't need to admit to you what kind of books I'm reading. 

Matt: Ah. Okay, fair enough. All right, so we'll just have to take your word for it. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: Was this a book you wrote? 

Lauren: No. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: But I will make it a point to insert that phrase and do everything I write from now on just to be safe.

Matt: I'm sure your potential future readers will love that. 

Lauren: They won't notice because it's not that weird.

Matt: You may want to put it in the back in a glossary. Are you going to have a glossary in your YA teenage vampire romance fiction? 

Lauren: I don't know. That could be a lot of fun, actually. 

Matt: Could you imagine a glossary in the back of most romance books these days? 

Lauren: No, no, I cannot. No, actually one of my favorite - I was talking to somebody about this recently, actually - one of my favorite gimmicks that I've ever seen used in a novel like that, that wasn't a glossary was in the trilogy, Crazy Rich Asians…

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: All of the chapters are written like little gossip sessions. Like they're all short soundbite kind of chapter styles. And they all include footnotes that explain the backstory. Like, so if somebody's like, oh my God, so I heard she was sleeping with the pool boy. And then there's a little footnote at the end of that sentence that says, the pool boy who was originally the pool boy for this other couple and was fired for some mysterious reasons and then was hired… Like, so there’s like little gossip within gossip using the footnotes in that, and it was a really fun way to read a book. I don't know if it would work for everything, and it's obviously not a glossary, but it was really fun in the style of that storytelling. 

Matt: So I've never read any of those, but I do know they're wildly successful. 

Lauren: Super fun, great books. 

Matt: But now knowing that, I'm very surprised because I - and most people I know - hate reading footnotes. I hate… It's a diversion for me if I'm reading something and I see that there's a footnote. Because A, I immediately feel like I need to go down and read the footnote. And so I'm instantly drawn out of what I was just reading to read the footnote for whatever I just read. And B, I just feel like in some weird way, it's like schoolwork for me. I always associate footnotes to being in college and high school. And so anytime I'm reading something now as an adult, whether it's for entertainment or professional development, if I see a footnote, I'm just like, ugh, really? Could we not have just put this in the actual copy? 

Lauren: Yeah but. How often are you coming across footnotes in fiction and not nonfiction? 

Matt: Well, thankfully never. 



Lauren: So that - that would - that, sure, like it makes sense that it feels like homework then. 

Matt: But that's what I'm saying. No, I get the like, why you would like that thing. That's fun. It is different. And again, I'm surprised that everybody loves that. Cause for me, I hate footnotes.

Lauren: I think it's very much on brand with how I talk and how I write, which is almost every sentence. I mean, I try really hard not to write like this, but the way that I talk is that almost every single sentence has a parenthetical side to it at some point during it. 

Matt: That's fair. Yeah. 

Lauren: And so the footnotes serve that function. 

Matt: Okay.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: I get it.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: It makes sense. 

Lauren: Anyway, totally deviating from the plot. 

Matt: A footnote. Yeah. 

Lauren: That's a little tangent. 

Matt: All right.

Lauren: Well, okay, more importantly, what we're talking about when we're talking about, like why you would want to publish a book - because we have this conversation a lot. It's really easy to talk to authors and aspiring authors about why you want to publish a book. They already know the why. They already want to publish a book. They've already - 

Matt: Most of them, yeah. 

Lauren: I mean, I don't think you qualify as an aspiring author if you don't want to publish a book. You know, it's kind of inherently in the name there. 

Matt: No notes. 

Lauren: I think. Great. But when we talk to content creators, business owners, content entrepreneurs, an audience like that, and we're talking about the idea of publishing a book, it's a lot more the focus is on why. Why would that be valuable to you? Why would that be beneficial…

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: To you, to your brand, whatever? And hopefully we will convince you why. 

Matt: Yeah, and because, like you said, with fiction, most of the time it's being done because it's something they wanna do, it's something they enjoy, it's something they're hoping they'll enjoy if it's their first one, it's a labor of love in many cases. But yeah, for a business, most of the time, they didn't set out to write a book. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: Most of them didn't even ever think about the idea that a book could help their business. And to them, that's just another big project. So why should they do that? Why should they take that on? 

You're right, yeah. Understanding that is critical or important. I guess that's also fair to bring up because we don't want everybody to think, hey, writing a book will save your business - 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: - or help your business. In most cases, you can make a book work for you as a marketing asset or a business asset, but there'll be times where this might not be applicable. And if that's the case for you as a listener, then that's fine. 

Lauren: Yeah. Although I do love that game. So if you are listening to this and you're like, I'm not sure how I, or what kind of book could support my business in any way. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Challenge me. I love that game.

Matt: I like that too. Yeah. 

Lauren: It's fun to think about creative ways that you could. 

Matt: I agree. 

Lauren: Use your brand or your content or something related to it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: As a book. 

Matt: Yep. One of the most obvious ways would be again, regardless of where you're at in your business journey, whether you're at the initial sort of startup or founder phase, or you are much further along than that. Throughout your entire business journey, there's always going to be a need in most cases to establish some authority in the area with which you actually do business, whether you sell physical products or services. You might be a marketing consultant or just starting out as a marketing consultant and left corporate America and now you want to do your own thing and it's more important than ever for people to see you as an expert or somebody they can trust. One of the best ways to do that, obviously, is to have a book in hand, right? 

Lauren: Absolutely. 

Matt: Oh, no notes? Cool. 

Lauren: Oh, no.

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: I thought you were you were on a roll. I don't want to interrupt. 

Matt: Oh well, you know. There are two of us in the room. So it's just giving you an opportunity. But...

Lauren: Well thanks. I appreciate that. 

Matt: Giving you an opportunity to establish your authority.

Lauren: Have I not already done so for the last year? 

Matt: You have. Yep. 

Lauren: Great. 

Matt: Yeah. What do your bracelets say? 

Lauren: They don't say that I wrote a book. I started doing something - 

Matt: Well, cause for our last episode, you're still working on that. 

Lauren: Yeah, sure am. 

Matt: Yeah. Okay.

Lauren: I've done so much writing since that episode. 

Matt: I, you know, you just dime yourself in every time. 

Lauren: I know. 

Matt: I always give you a way out. 

Lauren: I know, it's okay. 

Matt: I wasn't going to bring up whether or not you wrote anything. 

Lauren: Well, it's still pending. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: The idea is still there. Anyway, I decided - 

Matt: You should make a bracelet that says pending. 

Lauren: You, oh. That is great because that's also a Schitt's Creek reference that I use all the time. But also you told me I wasn't allowed to make any more bracelets until I did some writing. 

Matt: So these are old ones. 

Lauren: These are old ones. And over the weekend, last weekend, I took all of my bracelets and dumped them into one big bowl. And what I've started doing since then is I will just reach in and like pull out, pinch like a little handful of them and pull them out and pick three. 

Matt: Like a claw? Like the game. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: You should get a claw game.

Lauren: So what I actually, what I really want to do is get like a, um, you know how like tattoo parlors when they do like you get what you get things - 

Matt: Yep. 

Lauren: And they use the old like gumball machines or vending machines. I want to do that and put bracelets in it. I want to get one of those. I think it'd be really fun like, addition to my apartment. And it would be a fun thing to have. 

Matt: That's actually pretty cool. 

Lauren: Thank you. I thought so. 

Matt: That's actually a great idea for our next Lulu booth. 

Lauren: Oh, oh, okay. We'll circle back on that. 

Matt: Yeah. Let's take that offline. 

Lauren: Okay, great.

Matt: What are you wearing today? 

Lauren: My bracelets say Light My Way Back Home, Shared Madness, and Let's Go To Disney. 

Matt: I like the last one. 

Lauren: I thought you would. 

Matt: Yeah. All right. 

Lauren: All right. 


[9:48] 


Lauren: Anyway.

Matt: So. 

Lauren: Speaking of being experts and establishing your…

Matt: So, yeah, there's there's always a need to either establish yourself as an expert or continue that persona. You might establish yourself as an expert when you first launch your business, your product, your service. And then three years later, you might find yourself in a place where business, sales, whatever, are kind of stagnant or tapering off and you kind of need to reinvent and or go out there and drum up some new audience, some new business. It wouldn't hurt to sort of reestablish some of that authority or credibility or show, you know, a revised version like, hey, I know in the last three years a lot has changed. Here's my opinions on that, or here's sort of my take on that. Or this is the way our product addresses those things, or our business, or our brand, or whatever that might be. 

So it's not also just a one and done type of thing, but establishing authority is I think that foundational component to writing a book. If you're a business owner or again, early stage startup, or just somebody who wants to establish yourself as like a thought leader and you're trying to build an audience for some other purpose, having a book is a great way to do that.

Another great way to use a book to help establish authority or make people feel a little more trust in you is using it as your business card. And so, you know, some people out there have already kind of used this concept or this terminology that book is a business card or a book can be a business card. But you know, meeting somebody at an event or a conference or whatever that might be, and instead of handing them some standard business card, you give them your book…

I'm going to feel a lot more trust with somebody who just handed me a book that they literally wrote on the subject of why I might actually want to contract them anyways, you know, or buy their product or their service or whatever that might be, then if they just handed me a standard business card that let's face it, half the time has it been the garbage can. 

You know, there are a number of different ways that you can physically use a book to establish authority, whether that's again, giving that to somebody, selling it to them, whatever that might be. There's a number of different ways, but there's no arguing, really, the case that having a book that you wrote on a particular topic subject or product - There's no arguing that that doesn't put you a little further ahead of your competitors. 

Lauren: Sure. 

Matt: Who maybe don't have one in that game of developing trust. 

Lauren: And also if you're on the fence about whether or not this is something that you should do look at your competitors and check to see if any of them have published a book because I would be surprised if absolutely none of your competitors have their own books.

Matt: I don't know how surprised I would be, but that's still a great piece of advice. You should absolutely - I mean, if you're working in a particular space, vertical industry, where sometimes you might be working in a niche pocket of it, but nonetheless, even if you're in the broadest vertical there is, you know, car sales or something. Yeah. I mean, there may be a few books written on the topic. 

Lauren: Maybe. 

Matt: But you put your spin on it. And now all of a sudden it's a completely different version of it and another reason why more people might trust you. 

Lauren: Well and either - I mean, either way I think that it's valuable if you look at it and you realize that no one else in your immediate competitor list… 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: has published a book. Hello. This is your opportunity - 

Matt: Sure. 

Lauren: - to claim that real estate and claim that market. And if you look at it and you say oh it looks like my competitors have published a book… well, then you want to as well because you want to be able to compete with them in all areas in all platforms including publishing space.

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: You know? 

Matt: Yeah, you're right about that for sure. I mean, if you're in a space and most of your legitimate competitors, your primary competitors have written a book as well, then you're absolutely better. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: Because that could be one of the determining factors why somebody's gonna contract with one of them or buy their product or service and not yours.

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: Then it becomes a slightly different need. It's almost a necessity versus like, hey, this is something clever I should do as a business or to create this as a marketing asset. But yeah, that's a good point.

Lauren: I think that one of the things that make books so much more valuable than some of the other business cards or whatever that we talk about, I mean, even just think about like how you use the materials that you get from people when you're meeting somebody at like a marketing conference or at an industry conference or out in the world or wherever it is that you're interacting, where you're in a space where you're physically interacting with your potential customer base, your potential client base. I have a box on my desk that all of the business cards that I've gotten from various people is in. Do you think I ever look at that box? Do you think I ever open that box?

Matt: I have a box of them too, oddly enough. 

Lauren: Like, like, I, you know, that's the last resort thing that I do. But all the books that I've got at various conferences and events and stuff like that are lined up on the side of my desk. And they're right there. And when I'm sitting at my desk, having like, absolute brain blank, trying to figure out what's going on, and I'm swinging back and forth in my swivel chair, those are directly in my line of sight. And if I look at one of those and go, oh, hey, yeah, actually that person could help me with this problem that I'm having right now. Or I remember talking to that guy and they were telling me that they had the solution for this, this, this, and this. It's a lot more visible. It's a lot more readily accessible. It's right there in front of me. 

And it's also, you know, not to continue the like constant argument that we're making in the constant use of the phrase building on rented land. But I have turned into one of those people that uses TikTok as a search engine when I'm - I literally the other day I went on TikTok and searched how to get carpet indents out of carpet when you move furniture. Immediately, immediately first bit, like immediately got a solution. Very simple video worked perfectly. Absolutely no notes. It was great. As of the time that we are recording this podcast episode, TikTok is a ticking clock. Any day now TikTok could collapse under us. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So if you're somebody who has established this authority and this credibility with your audience base by having digital content somewhere, who's to say that's going to be there next week?

Matt: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, you're right. I was smirking a little bit at the content of choice an indent in your carpet, but the concept - 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: 100%. Yes. I mean, so many people still to this day think that because they have a social media channel presence of whatever amount of followers, it doesn't matter that they're doing great. They're riding high and they've got a viable business. Wrong. 100% wrong. If that business is built on Instagram, then Instagram has a business and followers you don't. The same for TikTok, YouTube, and any of the others. 

So yes, I think what you were saying a little bit earlier is a little more in line with where we're heading, which is having those books on your desk is a lot more beneficial than having the business card of that person on your desk. And this also speaks to this idea that a book can, especially a printed book, by the way, not those ebooks that Lauren reads. It's, it's also a legacy product in a sense, right? And so I too have a lot of books - a lot of books - in my office lining my desk and things. 

Lauren: Can confirm. 

Matt: But believe it or not, I often will, you know, flip through one of them if I need something. Or there has been a few times where I had a need to find a consultant in a very specific area for something we were gonna do here at Lulu. And I would turn around and go, somebody gave me a book on this or somebody I know does this. And I'll turn around and check my books and be like, was it any of these people? Because for me - 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: I know what it takes to write a book. I know what that entails and I'm probably going to be more inclined to want to talk to one of them first. Book is a great tool for establishing authority. It can also be used as a legacy type product where again, your book sitting on somebody's desk or bookshelf is a lot more helpful and influential than if your business card is sitting there, if it even made it to their desk. Most of the time it's probably sitting in a garbage can somewhere. So yeah.

Lauren: I think it's also a really great tool for getting you in front of new audiences. 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: As a result of the fact that you have proven your authority and your expertise on the subject. We'll talk more about the idea of using a book to attract new customers because that is a separate thing. But, you know, having a book, publishing a book, having that in your name or in your brand is definitely like, an opportunity creator for things like public speaking appearances, giving sessions at conferences, podcast appearances, guest blog posts, guest newsletter appearances. It's a reason for you to talk to people that are in your network or in your industry and get in front of their audiences that hopefully will then become your audiences. 

Matt: Yeah, again, it sort of frames what you're doing as more of a marketing activity versus a sales activity at times, or treating that book as a marketing asset. It is something that you can put out there to secure yourself some earned media opportunities, which anybody who owns a business or does anything in marketing knows that sometimes those are hard to come by. But it's one thing for you to get out there and try to tell people, hey, you've got some new product or service you're offering. Great, nobody cares. But if you're reaching out to your network and extended networks and letting people know you just finished writing a book, that you're really proud of this book, that you think it will help a lot of people solve problems X, Y, and Z in their lives or their business or whatever that might be, you're going to get a lot more attention and you're going to get a lot more people reaching back out to you and saying, hey, you know, I'd love to interview you on my podcast about your book or we've got this conference coming up. We'd love to have you do a little session on this based on your book or it's a lot easier for you to submit a speaking proposal, per se, if you've written a book and you have some expertise on a topic versus not having one and not really having any way to make the show organizer feel confident that you'd be able to deliver a good session on that topic. 

Lauren: As somebody that has experience with reviewing speaker submissions for a conference.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Is that something that you look at?

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: When you're looking at that? 

Matt: Of course. 

Lauren: If the speaker has published a book? Okay. 

Matt: Mmhmm, yeah. 

Lauren: Well, that's hugely valuable. 

Matt: Yeah. And in fact, for CEX, you know, when you fill out the speaker submission form, we ask for, you know, have you written a book and obviously what's the title and link to it - or books plural? Have you spoken before? If so, can you give us a sample of it or whatnot? But there's been a couple of times for sure where they didn't have any samples or examples of their previous speaking or something like that, but they did have a book. And so it made us feel a little bit more comfortable about taking a look at who they were and if they could potentially deliver value to an audience. So, absolutely. Yeah. And it is, it is there in the questions, like have you published a book? 

Lauren: How many people submitted just an Amazon link in response? I'm kidding. Don't tell me. Don't answer that question. Don't make me upset. 

Matt: I was having a good day till you brought that up. 

Lauren: Sorry. 

Matt: That should give you the answer you're looking for. 

Lauren: Oh, no. Kind of does, actually. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: But yeah, I know I agree. I think it's a really great opportunity to to - or I guess I was one that said it in the first place, so I agree with myself. Thanks. But it is, it's a great opportunity to reach out and use it as a marketing tool or as a reason, as a marketing reason. You know, like it's your foot in the door. 

Matt: Well, yeah, yeah. Yes. It's, it's an asset essentially. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: But yeah. I mean, imagine if you were going to go out there and want to talk to people about what you do, but again, you didn't have any good marketing assets to go with it. Nobody cares. You can go make a post that says, hey, you know… to follow your example, I know how to get indentions out of carpet. Great. You're going to get a few people like Lauren, who immediately right now need to get an indent out of their carpet. But if your greater goal is to secure jobs where you come in and carpet somebody's entire house, that's not going to do a whole lot for you. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: But you know, again, if you wrote a book about carpet or something to do with carpet. You now have an asset, a reason to go out and try to get other networks and channels and people to pay attention to you. Maybe there's a home improvement podcast where they'll be like, oh, yeah, we'd love to have you on to talk about your new book and whatever revolutionary advancements and getting dents out of Lauren's carpet. 

Lauren: The answer is to use the steamer function on an iron in case you were wondering, and a damp cloth.

Matt: Well, there you go, everybody. 

Lauren: There you go, problem solved. You don't have to buy the book now. 

Matt: Or you can go find Lauren on TikTok. 

Lauren: Do not go find Lauren on TikTok. 

Matt: Now I feel like I need to find you on TikTok. I don't need to be on TikTok at all. 

Lauren: You are the reason that I, nevermind, okay. 

Matt: I'm the reason that what? 

Lauren: That I got on TikTok in the first place.

Matt: I am? Yes. Why? 

Lauren: Because you wanted to start a TikTok for Lulu and I was still the social media manager and - 

Matt: Oh well that’s different. 

Lauren: You were on TikTok all the time and you were - Okay. 

Matt: That was a job requirement. 

Lauren: It was a job requirement.

Matt: You tried to make it sound more personal. 

Lauren: Well, you were always talking about TikTok and I needed to know what the big deal was about it. So I started an account and looked at it. 

Matt: To be fair. 

Lauren: To be fair. 

Matt: This was how long ago? 

Lauren: Um, three years ago. 

Matt: It was probably during COVID lockdown. 

Lauren: It was definitely during late stage COVID…

Matt: So your boy was watching a bunch of TikTok videos. 

Lauren: Yeah, that checks out. We all are doing our best. 

Matt: Anyways. 

Lauren: Anyways, that has infiltrated my brain entirely now, the to be fair thing.

Matt: Oh. 

Lauren: It's really unfortunate.

Matt: Did you watch any of those episodes yet? 

Lauren: No. 

Matt: Ugh, you’re terrible. 

Lauren: But it doesn't matter. It's in my brain anyway. So. 

Matt: All right. 

Lauren: Thanks. I guess 

Matt: Anyways.

Lauren: Anyways, speaking engagements, any kind of opportunity like that, whether it is a podcast episode, a speaking at a conference, speaking not at a conference, but you know, just an opportunity to speak to people about your area of expertise, related to it in some way. I've referenced this before I will reference it again - We hosted Stephanie Chandler from the Nonfiction Authors Association for a great webinar, I think at this point it was probably two years ago, but it was all about public speaking and specifically leveraging your books for public speaking and vice versa. So I will link that in the show notes, really great webinar, I highly recommend it if that's something that you're interested in doing with or without publishing a book.

Matt: Yeah, and again at the end of the day, this is all about creating marketing assets. If you own a business, a brand, whatever that might be, you know, again, just look at the book as an asset. And as somebody who is going to be looking for more audience, more revenue streams, more earned media opportunities, this is an asset, a tool that will get you some of those things. And so, yeah, getting yourself some speaking engagements or a couple of podcast interviews or whatever that might be. Having a book is a much easier way to get those things, to get your foot in the door, to go from A to B than some of the other opportunities that might be out there for you. So, yep. 

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. 


[24:20] 


Lauren: All right, I did promise the people that we would technically talk about attracting new customers and it has been a half an hour of us talking about - 

Matt: Well, yeah, I mean - 

Lauren: - establishing your -

Matt: - that's the perfect segue. 

Lauren: There you go. 

Matt: So attracting new customers is - that's - a big part of it is again, earned media and that's -

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: That's why you want it. You want new customers. You want new ears and eyes on what you're doing or who you are, your brand or your product. So absolutely using a book to gain new customers, audience, whatever you want to call them, 100%. Not to mention writing a book or publishing a book that automatically already opens up a whole new audience to you, right? 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: Prior to that, you may have been trying to reach certain types of people or audiences or clientele or whatever that might be that maybe weren't hanging out on social media or LinkedIn or however you were trying to reach them, but you've now published a book, a written piece of content that already opens up new doors and then being able to then go out there and talk about it and secure new audiences. Yeah, absolutely. 

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that should probably be your primary goal, right? But I think that it's also a great way, depending on what your brand is, what your business is, what you're selling. A book can be a great buy-in opportunity for customers to test the water with you, or for potential customers to test the water with you. So not only just an opportunity to get you in front - not only is it gonna be the thing that gets you in front of potential new customers - 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: It's also gonna be a way for them to get a taste of what it is you're offering without committing to the full… Let's say you're selling a $1,000 extensive online course that is a masterclass that has this whole big thing. And that's, that's a, you know, depending on, on the person and -

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: - what the business is and what the subject matter is, that could be a very expensive buy in for somebody. A $30 book that is like, an intro and a teaser to what your course goes in depth about -

Matt: Yeah.

- is much more manageable for the average customer. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And it's much more likely to have somebody go like, oh, you know, yeah. Let me check this out, see if I'm interested in it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And then commit to the whole thing. 

Matt: Yeah. I think that's a great point. I think that, you know, there are a lot of people out there right now that that is their business model is they’re - they're creating online content or things like that, whether it's online courses or anything else. But that's a great primer into who you are and what you do and what your expertise level is. So if you're able to offer something like that, where somebody could read the book, maybe learn a few cool things, but realize there's probably a lot more to learn from you. They would be much more inclined to then invest $500 on your masterclass, $1,000, whatever that might be, after reading your book and understanding that they have a newfound level of trust with you. 

Lauren: Yeah. But I was actually thinking about this even while I was working on the outline for this episode, even something like if you're a business, you know, the online, the online spaces where people are doing online courses and stuff like that, like that's one great area where a book could be a great asset for you. But also if you, if your business is something that is difficult to have a tangible product to show people in some capacity. And there's so many different ways that that could go. I mean, if you're somebody who's a dietitian, who's helping people come up with customized meal plans to help them eat healthier and lose weight and handle, you know, being pre-diabetic or something like that. 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: That's a really, that's an abstract concept that you can talk about, but a book is a great way to have like a, here's a sampler of, you know, twenty of my most popular recipes that'll give you an idea of the kind of recipes that I will tailor to your specific needs, depending on what you wanna do. Or it could be something like, hey, I own a construction company and we specialize in building really cool outdoor deck spaces off the back of your house. And I can't really take you to every single house that I've ever built a deck on the back of, but I can put together a portfolio book with some of our best work, that has pictures. 

Matt: As well as, you know, here's some some best practices and some things you should look for when you are interviewing contractors to build. Yeah.

Lauren: Yeah, yeah. Some, you know, here's different tips for how you're going to care for this. And here are different things that you want to keep an eye out for when you're, when you're working with contractors and…

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: Things like that. Here's the best time. Like, you know, advice, tips, things you could have a lot of fun with that, I think. 

Matt: You sound like you've built decks before. 

Lauren: I held the board still while my dad and cousin built a deck. Does that count? 

Matt: Sure. Yeah. 

Lauren: It was great. I was, I was a really, really important part of the process.

Matt: Yeah again a book is a great tool or an asset to use for prospecting and trying to secure new clientele for a number of different reasons like we've just talked about. But it is a great way to showcase your knowledge, your talents, maybe the products that you build or provide, the services things like that. It's a great way to again attract some new eyeballs, some new audience, some new listeners, whatever that might be so. 

Really using that book, again, as an asset, because once you've created it by the way, unlike things like paid ads and stuff like that when you're using the book that you've created at that point, you're just earning media, you're earning coverage, you're earning things where thankfully, and for the most part, you're not paying for that stuff. So again, as a business owner or somebody who's trying to grow their brand, it is a low cost way to do these things as well. 

But in my opinion, you're securing better clientele, better business because of the way that you're establishing trust versus just posting some ad on Instagram, Facebook, whatever, saying, hey. I'm this person and I can do this. And it's like, okay, great. But not only did you just pay for somebody to view that ad and read it and maybe click through if you're lucky, but again, unless you have a top notch website where you can really convey trust through that website, it's hard to get bookings and consultations and make sales purely online these days. Like they're… having that human element really helps out, especially if you're selling high ticket, like high dollar items. 

Lauren: Two totally divergent thoughts to that. 

Matt: Oh, boy. 

Lauren: But the first one was like, with your example with paid ads and stuff like that. Think about how often you'll see an ad for something and you look at it and you go, oh, that's interesting. Like maybe, maybe, you know, maybe I'm interested in that, maybe I'm not. I'm not going to click on it because I don't want my entire feed to turn into this ad over and over and over again, but that looks interesting. And a few days later, you're still thinking about it and you're like, oh yeah, that thing did seem pretty cool. Like, I want to go back and check it out again. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: But you can't because you can't go back and search for ads. And what am I supposed to do? Go on Instagram and search what was the ad that I got the other day for that really cool strip of lights that was supposed to go behind my TV? Okay, that's - that's helpful. That's not going to give me anything. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: But, you know, something like a book that, you know, showcases and highlights what your brand can do is a lot more powerful and a lot more tangible. 

It's also something that is a lot more… books are inherently much more like, word of mouth recommendation than a lot of other things turn out to be. If somebody says, oh, like, I like this recipe that - you brought a really cool like, crock pot recipe to this party. I really like it. What is it? And I'm always the one to be like, oh, I got it from this great cookbook that I really like from this TikTok chef that I really like that I had to get their cookbook. You got to check it out. Like here, take a look at it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: You know, like that is absolutely just free marketing for you at that point. 

Matt: Yeah. And again, you know, ultimately that's what you're looking for is using that as an asset to draw more attention, build more audience, build your clientele. It's a lead magnet. It's - that's what we're saying. It's best used for. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: So putting in the time to create this book and using it for what it's really meant to do. A lot of people are having success with that right now. There's a lot of studies being done right now around business books and what they can actually do for somebody and if they're worth it or not.

Lauren: Yeah, there was actually right around when I was writing this outline, I read a report that was shared in The Tilt newsletter, which you should subscribe to if you haven't already, that was a business book author, Josh Bernoff, and a few other people did a comprehensive study of business book ROI. 

Matt: Which I think they do it every year, by the way.

Lauren: Do they?

Matt: I think Josh Bernoff pretty much heads up an author's survey once a year around a topic that has to do with business books and business authors. 

Lauren: Great. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren:Well, that's cool. So this was their most recent one then. And in that report, they mentioned that there was a, according to their survey results, a 31% increase in consulting for business owners after they published a book and a 26% increase in workshop buy-in and a 34% increase in speaker engagements.

Matt: Yeah, I'll say also that I was putting together a slide deck for a talk I gave last year about using books as a growth tool. I also found another statistic from a Forbes Insight study that says, Forbes found in the study that 75% of business executives consider being a published author as a sign of expertise - 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: - and using that as a consideration for booking. Yeah.

Lauren: That makes perfect sense to me. 

Matt: Yeah.

Lauren: I mean, I'm not a business executive, but I would - I personally would consider it a sign of expertise to publish a book.

Matt: If you were a business executive, the book that I would put on your desk is it would have Taylor Swift on the front and then the inside it would say you should book me as a consultant because Taylor Swift. And that's all I would put on it. And I'd hopefully win your business. 

Lauren: Well, I mean, realistically, that would show that you did your research ahead of time into who I am and what would work for me. So it does tell me that you would probably be good at your job. 

Matt: See.

Lauren: Look at that. And you put the work into making a book for me. How nice. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Thank you so much. 

Matt: That's exactly what I would do. 

Lauren: Great plan. 

Matt: That would be easier to me than making you a bracelet. 

Lauren: Yeah, that checks out, honestly. 


[34:39]


Lauren: Attracting new customers is great and obviously a main function of what you would want to do here. But I also don't want to ignore your existing clients or customers. 

Matt: Or audience. Yeah. 

Lauren: Or readers or audience or whoever. Your existing people and absolutely publishing a book is still relevant to them and it's still a new opportunity for you to expand your customer retention efforts and speak to them. So before we wind down on this episode, which is somewhere between forty five minutes long and ten minutes long, depending on how many camera issues have to get edited out of this. I'm so sorry. But I do want to talk about that a little bit before we wrap it up. 

Matt: Book being used in retention efforts? 

Lauren: Yes.

Matt: Yeah. I think that it can do a couple of things, but again, depending on what your, your business is or your product or your services or whatever it is you do, whatever reason you have an audience, you know what I mean? There is an element there of, of retention of continuing to nurture that so that they stick with you so that they continue to… to buy from you or use your services or consult with you or whatever that might be. And publishing a book is just another signal to them. It's a signal that says, hey, I still am at the top of my game for this. Like, you can still trust me to handle your, you know, let's say the… you're a, a financial trader or broker or something like that, right? Publishing a book every couple of years to show that you're up on what's going on and maybe what current trends are in the finance markets and things like that is not a bad thing. 

Lauren: No, not at all. 

Matt: You know? When you're dealing with something sensitive like money and trading or things like that. And that's one example, but the point is I think that it's just another signal you're giving off. It's another way of you saying, hey, I'm still great at this. This is what I do. It's another level of trust that you're instilling. And it's also a way to open up more dialogue with your… your current and existing customer audience. 

Lauren: Yeah, it definitely is. And it's also, to Matt's point about staying updated with stuff like that, that's a lot easier to do with self-publishing than it is with traditional publishing. 

Matt: Oh, without a doubt, yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah, so, you know, that's something to keep in mind too. It's a lot easier for you to just go ahead and update your existing book. It might even be fun to do, like, if you had a book already and you wanted to publish a new one, where you add commentary, not necessarily commentary, but like do a side by side of like, this is my old book and these are what things have changed and what things have stayed the same. And let's talk a little bit about how this has evolved. Like that could be a really fun, interesting way to kind of explore that. 

Matt: So we do have an example on Lulu of somebody who was… I don't know if they still do this, but up until recently they did, there was a guy, he was, I think he was more than just a CPA, but nonetheless, he did tax services and financial services. Every year he would put out, it was a small book, like it wasn't like 600 pages or anything. It was a small book about whatever the tax code for that year was, and he would show some comparisons from year to year if they were relevant, and some other things about what you could and could not write off, or stuff like that.

And again, it's a niche market. It's not something you would expect somebody to write a book about, but he did that every year, and he used it as not only a client retention tool, so his existing clients would or could get a copy of it if they wanted to. But he would also use those as ways to… as lead magnets to draw in new clients. Obviously he wasn't somebody that did tax and financial services for people in our income brackets, but probably higher. 

But nonetheless, it was a cool idea. And I remember seeing that year after year for several years, here at Lulu, but I don't know if he still does, but it's an example of, yeah, using something like that as a retention effort too. 

Lauren: And it is not only a retention effort in terms of keeping you top of mind with your customers and your client base, in that particular example, it's also - that's an example of a product that has an expiration date because books don't necessarily have a shelf life, you know? Depends on what the topic is. 

Matt: Yeah, yeah.

Lauren: But some books - 

Matt: Sure. 

Lauren: - you're only ever gonna buy once. Something like that that's being updated annually or something that is a… interactive workbook or a guided journal or a planner or a 28 day outline to building a new habit or something like that. If you have customers that are going to be repeat customers that are going to be like, continuing to stay with you and use your product, they might have to buy more than one of those. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So it's customer retention in more than one way.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. And again, let's say your initial product or service is kind of a one and done deal. This is a great way to keep people again in your sort of network in your ecosystem is, you know, maybe your, your first interaction with them was them purchasing a particular product or online course from you or something like that. Well, coming out a little bit later with something that aligns with that product or service, like a workbook, like you said, or notebook or a journal or a part two or revised edition. It's a great way to, again, keep them engaged with you, keep them in your ecosystem, in your little community, and help continue to grow that business with them and that relationship, yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. And it could also be, like there's fun marketing opportunities within that that we've talked about in other episodes about how to create true fans and how to turn casual fans into super fans and stuff like that. When it comes to these remarketing opportunities where you're giving your existing fans, your existing customers first look or… you're giving them the opportunity to, you know, like you'll be the first ones to have access to this or anybody on my existing customer list has the opportunity to buy a special edition of this or something like that. You ever get like Spotify ads pretty much that are like, oh, this band that you love has a new album coming out - 

Matt: Yes. 

Lauren: - and they've made a special edition vinyl that is just for Spotify fans.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: - like they're Spotify fans. And like - 

Matt: An exclusive. 

Lauren: Right. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: And on more than one occasion, I have looked at that and been like, do I need that for this band that I've listened to like three of their songs, but they're just like three songs are like high in my rotation. So like, maybe I do need this exclusive limited edition vinyl - 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Because I felt special about the fact that they're like giving me exclusive access to something.

Matt: The answer for you and I usually, yes, we do need that. 

Lauren: I know, I know. 

Matt: They target us very well and they know exactly how to get money out of us, but - 

Lauren: They really do. I rearranged my record collection the other day and now there's a bunch of extra space. 

Matt: Why? 

Lauren: So I moved my record player, and I moved the speakers, and now the space where the speakers were are now empty shelves. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Because I needed more room for my records, but now I have too much room for my records. So the only solution is to go buy more records. 

Matt: That I would agree with, yes.

Lauren: Obviously.

Matt: That's typically how my thought process goes too. 

Lauren: Yeah, well I gotta fill that empty space, it looks weird. 

Matt: You know what's great is I'm just at the point now where I think I need another bookshelf. Like I'm getting to the point where books aren't really fitting in the shelf anymore. And I love that because you get a new bookshelf, you put your overflow books on there, and maybe it only fills up one of the shelves and you've got four more to fill and it's like, sweet, now I can actually justify going and buying more books. 

Lauren: Absolutely you can. 

Matt: So I imagine you had the same feeling with your records. 

Lauren: And I have that feeling all the time with my books too, don't you worry. Although I've actually run out of bookshelf real estate. 

Matt: Wow. 

Lauren: So. Not like I -  

Matt: Now you need a bigger apartment. 

Lauren: I do need a bigger apartment, you're right. 

Matt: By the way, there's a lot more of these tips, tricks, things that we're talking about in some previous episodes that we've recorded and those will be linked in the show notes as well. 

Lauren: Yep. 

Matt: I think as a whole episode though, we have a lot of fun talking about how books can help you grow a business. You know, and again, most of this is relative to nonfiction, but a lot of this can be carried over into fiction as well. 

Lauren: Oh, absolutely. 

Matt: Yeah. When we talk about growing audiences and things like that, these are things that fiction authors are very interested in is growing their audience and how you use books to do that versus using some other asset or channel to grow your audience. It's a little more, I think, second nature to fiction authors per se. But nonetheless, it's a lot of fun to try and take that challenge with nonfiction and business owners. And when you talk to them about like, yeah, you can use it. You ever thought about using a book as a marketing asset? And they're like. What are you talking about? How does it make any sense? And then you start talking about the different ways you can use it. And they're like, Oh, wow, that makes, that actually makes a lot of sense. Okay. That's to me, that's a lot of fun. 

Lauren: I love that light bulb moment. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I love it. It's one of my favorite things about talking to people at conferences, cause I love getting to have those conversations. It is a lot of fun. 

Matt: Yeah. There's a lot of great creators and small business owners that have, have launched books recently. We've seen some really cool ones. So it's exciting to see people actually putting it into practice and making it work.

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So yeah, if you're sold, hopefully you are. 

Matt: Sold? 

Lauren: Yeah, on the idea of using a book to grow your brand. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: Or if you agree with us that it is a great value add and a worthwhile value add. 

Matt: I thought you were being punny. I just wasn't sure. 

Lauren: I mean, I was, I'm always being punny. 

Matt: Oh, okay. 

Lauren: No, I'm always trying to be punny. It doesn't always land, clearly. But I'm always trying. 

Matt: Alright.

Lauren: No, but if you're… if you’re on board with this idea, there are like Matt just said plenty of other episodes that dive much deeper into all the things we've talked about here and I'm sure there will be more in the future, because also like Matt just said I think this is a topic that we could talk about for hours.

Matt: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, it's a topic that we could talk about for hours, but we don't have that long to talk about it. But thankfully it is something that is covered in other episodes too, so. 

Lauren: So we'll link some of those in the show notes but also go scroll through and check out which ones sound good to you. And if you don't know where to start, try the most recent one, because that's the one about how to build a writing habit. And that's the first: spoiler alert. If you decide that you're going to publish a book, the first thing you have to do is write it.

Matt: Yeah, I mean, that's a fair statement for sure. 

Lauren: So you can always start there and see how it goes. 

Matt: All right. 

Lauren: Well, let us know if you do. You can find us on the Lulu socials and on YouTube. Technically there's a video of this episode, although I don't know how much of it actually wound up on video. 

Matt: Fingers crossed. 

Lauren: Yeah, here's hoping 

Matt: Might have to be animated. 

Lauren: Ooh, I don't have that - I don't have that kind of time or skill set but man that would be fun. 

Matt: You could do it with stick drawings. 

Lauren: Perfect. Perfect. I'll do like, flipbook style. It'll be great. This episode is actually gonna come out in 2026 because that's how long it's gonna take me to learn how to do that. 

Matt: Well, if it's any indicator of you know, your other books when they'll come out then probably 2029, 2030.

Lauren: Okay, that's fair. Hey, I mean, did you do any writing? 

Matt: No. 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: I did not.

Lauren: I didn't think so. 
Matt: I did catch up on some TV and movies though. 

Lauren: Anything good? 

Matt: Yeah, a couple different things. Anyways. All right. Let's go draw some stick drawings. 

Lauren: Okay, great. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Thanks for listening, everyone. And we'll see you next week. Hopefully, we'll actually see you 

Matt: Later.

Lauren: With real camera and everything.