Lauren: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Publish & Prosper. Today, Matt and I are going to be talking about one of our favorite topics, actually, which is indie bookstores. We both love indie bookstores. We're both big fans of supporting independent bookstores, patronizing independent bookstores. Not patronizing - no, patronizing. Sorry, I had a whole conversation this weekend about the difference between patronizing and patronizing. It, it was a very patronizing conversation. But, in our case. 

Matt: I actually, I actually had to stop for a second too - 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: - and think about it, just when you just like wait patronizing or? 

Lauren: Yeah. No. So, but, you know, I know we’ve referenced this on the podcast before where like, Matt and I, we’re going to a new city for a conference. And one of the first things we do when we get there and we have time to kill is go find the nearest indie bookstore to check out. I've talked repeatedly about working at an indie bookstore in the past. It’s a topic near and dear to our hearts. 

Matt: Yep.

Lauren: But in our last episode, we kind of implied that it might not be beneficial to self-published authors to have their books in indie bookstores. 

Matt: Well, I'm going to disagree with you. 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: We didn't specify indie bookstores. I believe in the last episode, we were talking a little more about big box bookstores. 

Lauren: Sure. 

Matt: More specifically, I think you're referring to my comments. And what I was saying was from a financial standpoint, in terms of making money from your books, you're not going to make hardly any money from your book being on the shelf at a Barnes & Noble. It's just not going to happen. Because of the stuff you have to agree to, because you have to agree to returns, because you have to discount it by like 40 some odd percent. You're just not going to make any money as a self-published or indie published author. 

We were specifically talking about reasons why you would want your book on the shelf of a big box book retailer. And so the two main ones were you just wanted to see your face on the shelf at Barnes & Noble, like a vanity play. Okay. Understood. But the other was to make money and that's pretty much a fallacy. As a self-published author rarely, ever, are you going to make any money if your book is actually on the shelf at a big box bookstore. Because even if it does sell, your cut of that - by the time you actually get it - is barely pennies on the dollar. 

Lauren: Also, I don't know if you've been in any of these big box bookstores recently, but they're getting like increasingly difficult to shop. Have you been in any of the newly designed Barnes & Nobles recently? 

Matt: How so, like, what do you mean hard to shop? 

Lauren: Like, I went into one this weekend that was one of the new Barnes & Nobles, and it's - actually one of my friends sent me a TikTok this morning that described it perfectly. It was if a ring light was turned into a bookstore. It was just very bright. It was very like light wash wood floors and light wash wood shelving and all of these spotlights. It was a very bright, kind of impersonal experience in a way? I don't know, like we all, like none of us could put our finger on what it was, but we walked into this store and we were all like, oh, I don't want to be in here. 

Matt: I got nothing to say there. I don't see anything out of place. 

Lauren: Okay. It's definitely not just me because people are definitely talking about it on social media, so.

Matt: For me, the bigger issue is when I walk into one, I'm completely inundated with YA fiction.

Lauren: Oh, that's fair. 

Matt: And every corner I turn is YA fiction. Listen, do your thing, read whatever you want to read, but I'm a 50-year-old man. I don't care about YA fiction. And every corner I turn is YA fiction to the point where I'm finding it harder and harder to find what I actually went in there for, to the point where I just don't go in those anymore. Or well, not very often, put it that way. 

Lauren: I do also find that more and more when I go in looking for a specific book, I don't find it. Like more and more lately, if I'm looking for a specific book - 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Even traditionally published books, I wind up having to go order them online because I'll walk into Barnes & Noble and they don't have it in stock. 

Matt: Which is a big differentiator from a big box store and a really good indie bookstore, they're going to stock a little bit of everything.

Lauren: Oh, yeah. 

Matt: Probably very few times that I've walked into a good indie bookstore, just an indie bookstore in general, and not been able to find what I want - and then some. It's way more often the case that I walk into a big box store, not only can I not find what I want, but I usually leave pretty frustrated. 

Lauren: Absolutely. Also, I think one of the really cool things about indie bookstores that we've been seeing more and more has been specialty indie bookstores. So stores that specialize - 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: There's one that I loved for years and I finally got to go to it last month called The Ripped Bodice. 

Matt: I knew that's what you're gonna say, I knew that’s what you were going to say. 

Lauren: It’s - it started out in California and now they have a location in Brooklyn, and I finally got to go to the Brooklyn one when I was up there in June. And it is a romance bookstore. It is - every single thing they sell in there - 

Matt: Really? 

Lauren: Couldn't you tell? 

Matt: I don't think anybody could tell from the name of it. 

Lauren: But it is, it's every single book in there. And because of that, they are able to sell a lot more books - or they're able to carry, anyway - a lot more books from indie publishers, from self-published authors, because their focus is specifically - 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Romance novels. So the whole store is stocked with that. There are also plenty of mystery books - like exclusively mystery books bookstores, there are sci-fi fantasy bookstores. There probably is at least one horror-exclusive bookstore, I'm sure.

Matt: If there’s not, I know what I'm doing when I retire. 

Lauren: All right. You want me to come work for you there? I'll do it. 

Matt: No, you’d drive me crazy. With all that Taylor Swift and romance book garbage. 

Lauren: But I promise those - I would keep those at home. 

Matt: All right. 

Lauren: They don't add to the vibe of a horror bookstore. 

Matt: Then yes. I would probably -  

Lauren: I know my audience 

Matt: - probably want you to come work for me. 

Lauren: Great. Yeah, I got you. 

Matt: I'll pay you in Monster energy drinks. And books. 

Lauren: I mean, those are the two things I spend most of my money on anyway. 

Matt: I know that. 

Lauren: Maybe like an annual two weeks of paid leave so I can go to Disney and then we've got a deal. 

Matt: All right.

Lauren: Sold. Anyway, we are not just here to talk about bookstores, as much as we probably could for 45 minutes straight, but specifically wanted to take a look at if you are a self-published author that wants to have your book carried in an indie bookstore. We're not talking about the big box stores, specifically indie bookstores. We thought we'd share some tips for how you can go about doing that. 

Matt: Yeah. I think also just to be clear, just in case - when we say indie bookstores, we're primarily talking about your local bookstores. Some of them are chains, obviously, like they might have three or four locations. But in general, we're talking about your local bookstore. It's not one of the big box stores. It's not owned by some massive corporation. These are typically single location stores. Sometimes they have a couple of locations. But when we say indie bookstore, that's what we're talking about. 

Lauren: Yeah. And I mean, these range in size and popularity from a closet in a small building in the middle of the city somewhere to this is Powells, one of the most famous bookstores in the, or, uh, man, what's the one in New York that I hate The Strand. 

Matt: Oh, 

Lauren: You know, technically - 

Matt: You know, there's a really cool one -

Lauren: - an indie bookstore. 

Matt: There's a cool one in London. It's a boat. 

Lauren: What. 

Matt: And it's called Words on Water. Yeah. 

Lauren: Oh. Okay. I got to go back to London. Oh no. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: All right. Well, this is, this is our focus. So, you know, specifically indie bookstores,

[7:28]

Lauren: Before we start on that, just real quick to kind of like, set the scene a little bit, I wanted to run through quickly how traditional publishers go about getting their books into bookstores. Just so that we can kind of understand what we're not going to do as self-published authors. The main avenue for traditional publishers is that they have sales teams in-house. 

Matt: That's right. 

Lauren: And those sales reps are… first of all, some of the most powerful people in any traditional publishing house, it's incredible. They have the power to outright pull the plug on a project before it's even been acquired, if they think it's not gonna sell. They also have the power to - or they have the influence to - have a say in everything from your book's launch date, cover design, the target audience, market that they're gonna sell it in, formats sometimes even. Like, they have a huge amount of influence on the success and the marketing and the go-to-market strategy for your book. 

Matt: And as such, they're highly skilled people, though. So let's not - 

Lauren: Oh, oh , yeah. 

Matt: I mean, they've earned that right to do a lot of that stuff. 

Lauren: Oh, yeah. This fear comes from respect. I - in another life, I am a sales rep in a publishing house because it's, I think it's a very cool job to have. But basically, these sales reps all have long established relationships with their accounts. And by accounts I mean the stores that they connect with. Whether it’s - 

Matt: Well they, they have a book of business. 

Lauren: Yeah; 

Matt: Just like any other sales rep in any other industry. I mean, that part of their job is extremely similar. You have a list of clients or a book of business or whatever you want to call it, right? 

Lauren: Yep.

Matt: And so every time you've got a new title that that you're trying to sell, you go to that book of business to sell it. Or you know, you're at trade shows, the London Book Fair, places where you're writing orders. 

Lauren: Yes, that too. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: I always thought that the relationship that was established with the stores was the huge thing - that is the huge thing that traditional publishers have that indie authors don't have, is this long-standing cultivated relationship. Because one of the things that's so important for sales reps is understanding the market that they're pitching to. 

It can come down to as simple as like, I know this bookstore doesn't like this type of book, so I'm not gonna focus my pitch on this type of book, but I am gonna focus it on this type of book. Or having a really good understanding of consumer behavior, having a really good understanding of trends in the market, having a really good understanding of like… okay, airport bookstores generally prefer paperbacks over hardcovers because people are more likely to impulse purchase a paperback because they don't wanna carry a heavy hardcover on a plane with them.

Things like that, they're very aware of that, they very much have like a finger on the pulse on that. And it's their job to go to their different accounts and go to - whether it's an individual indie bookstore or a massive chain bookstore or a massive chain big box store that isn't a bookstore, but carries books within there and say like, okay, here are our upcoming Fall 2024 titles. Here's what we think that you should stock. Here's what we think would be a good fit for you. We are predicting this is one that's going to be huge. You're going to want to have 12 copies ahead of the launch date so that you can put them out the day it comes out. 

This one might not be that big, but we're in negotiation with Reese's Book Club to pick it up. So it might take off later. So you might want to have a couple of copies in stock at the beginning, just in case, whatever the case is with that, that's what they're good at. That's what they're paid to do. And that is one of the big things that traditional publishing has going for it. Unfortunately, as a self-published author, you don't have any of that going for you. 

Matt: Yeah, I can't afford a sales team. 

Lauren: Wouldn't it be nice though? 

Matt: No.

Lauren: No. Well, and that's - that is the kind of, I mean, that's really the important part, is that you can't afford a sales team because you can't buy that kind of relationship-building and knowledge of the industry. 

Matt: I think it's important to also real quick, and then we can be done with this section, but. There are some hybrid publishing companies, some reputable ones that have been around a while. They have kind of done the same thing. So they've established some relationships with some bookstores and more importantly, some distribution networks where if you're publishing through a hybrid publisher, a good reputable one. In many cases, they have a small sales team that has done some of that legwork too. 

That can be an option outside of traditional publishing. If you truly just want to see your book on bookstore shelves, especially the big box stores. I say reputable hybrid publishing companies and there's a few of them. That's your other way. If you want it to. 

Lauren: Yeah, that's fair. I also want to say before we get too far into this, that in no way are we saying that it is impossible for a self-published author to get their book in a big box store, in a chain store. Nothing's impossible. 

Matt: No, nothing's impossible. 

Lauren: But we see it happen all the time. We've seen Lulu Authors have their books carried in big stores. We've seen other self-published authors have their books carried in big stores. We've seen self-published authors hit the New York Times bestseller list. You know, none of these things are impossible. Just a little harder. 

Matt: Yeah, we tend to focus on the average or the more realistic expectations that people should have. But yeah, nothing's impossible. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

[12:28] 

Lauren: When it comes to actually getting your book in an indie bookstore, as a self-published author, there are… 

Matt: A couple of ways. 

Lauren: I was gonna say two and a half ways. 

Matt: I mean, there's probably more than that, but we're going to focus on a couple. 

Lauren: Yeah. And the first one that we're going to focus on is consignment. If it sounds familiar, that is because it's definitely not limited to books and publishing and bookselling. 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: Basically, what you're doing as an author is you're going to come to an agreement with a bookstore where you're - the bookstore is going to basically just host your books in store for you, they're going to facilitate all the sales and then they'll handle paying out the author after any sales have been made. 

Matt: I want to back up for a second. You have something in this part of your outline that I think is really important, but I think it's out of place. I think it should actually be in front of this. 

Lauren: Oh. 

Matt: There are some things that your book should have as criteria before any of these stores, indie bookstores or otherwise, will consider putting it on the shelf.

Lauren: That's true. 

Matt: So I think we should actually talk about those first. 

Lauren: Okay. 

Matt: Just to make sure everybody is aware. Like if you are going to try as an indie published author to get your book in your local indie bookstore, you've got a pretty decent shot, but you definitely need to have these few things built into your book before they'll actually even consider it. And I'll let Lauren go over them, but I think they're really important and there's just a small handful of them. But when you hear them, it'll make sense to you. 

Lauren: That's a really good point actually, though, because this is - just to make sure that we're all understanding this correctly - this is not limited to books that would be on consignment. This is any kind of way - 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: - that you're considering attempting to get your book in a bookstore. 

Matt: Exactly. 

Lauren: These apply. So these guidelines are about the specific design of the book and also about the metadata that you choose to include in your book. Many bookstores will not carry a book that doesn't have a spine. So we're talking about coil bound books or saddle stitch books. There are some exceptions. Obviously some bookstores carry notebooks. Obviously some children's books are saddle stitch books, a travel guide or something, but - 

Matt: Comic books and graphic novels. 

Lauren: Yes, comic books and graphic novels. There are obviously some exceptions to that, maybe even magazines. But for the most part, if it's an actual book that you are reading, most bookstores will not carry a book that does not have a spine. 

Matt: Especially coil bound. 

Lauren: Yeah. Which is also if you have ever checked on the Lulu website, if you are going through our pricing calculator and you see that some of the formats have a little icon next to them that say whether or not it's eligible for global distribution, any coil bound book is not available for global distribution, because most bookstores will not - 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: - stock coil bound books. They also, even if you do have a spine, if you didn't put any text on the spine, you might get immediately rejected from having your book in the store. They don't want to have a book on the shelf that people can't tell what it is. Your title, author's name, whatever other details you consider relevant to have on your spine, you need to have them on the spine of your book if you want your book to be considered for an indie bookstore. 

Speaking of that, generally it has to look professionally done. Maybe not professionally done, but it has to look well done. You don't want it to look like somebody just exported a Word doc, slapped it in a book, threw a cover on it, and that was it. These bookstores have a standard to uphold. Which is not to say that every traditionally published book and every book available in an indie bookstore or any bookstore is a good book. We all know that's not true. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: But at the very least, they want people to be able to look at your book and think it's a good book without reading a word of it.

Matt: Well, at the end of the day, they want to sell books. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: So they're safeguarding themselves, which makes sense. Every company does it, especially if you sell retail products. For them, having these standards in place will ensure more sales. You know what I mean? And less books they're going to have to return and or send off to be pulped or recycled. 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: Which we don't want to happen. We want books to go in the hands of people and be read. Yeah, it makes sense. I think that why it was important to talk about these things is, I think a lot of people don't think about that. And the idea is, oh, I've created this book and it looks pretty decent. Now I wanna get it in my local bookstore. And you're right back to the drawing board if you don't have these things, even something as simple as an ISBN number or barcode, right? 

Lauren: Which, we will definitely, yeah, that's definitely, that was the last thing. 

Matt: You're welcome. 

Lauren: You have to have an ISBN. They have to be able to input your book into their system, which they cannot do if it does not have an ISBN. So. That is necessary. 

Matt: Preferably a full barcode. Like you, technically you can have an ISBN assigned your book and not a barcode, but technically they want a barcode. That's, I believe how they put it in their system. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Lauren: Well, it depends. 

Matt: Okay, well either way. 

Lauren: So the bookstore that I used to work at, shockingly out of business, their computer systems were so old that we actually could not scan books. We had to enter everything in manually. 

Matt: So you typed in 13 digit - 

Lauren: Yes. 

Matt: ISBN numbers all day long?

Lauren: Uh-huh.

Matt: Gross. 

Lauren: And if you were wondering, there were absolutely times where like, a book was so popular and we sold so many copies of it in a short span of time that we would start to memorize the ISBNs. 

Matt: Oh my god. 

Lauren: They all start with 978 so that makes it easy. So it's actually only ten numbers to remember, nine numbers to remember whatever it is. But yes, absolutely essential to have that. If you would like more information on how to make sure that your book looks good. I wrote a blog post a while ago that was basically just like 2,000 words of me up on my high horse. It's fine. It's five visual indicators - 

Matt: I can’t imagine that. 

Lauren: Me? What? I don't know why you gave me a platform. It’s fine. 

Matt: I don't know either. But you were the only one crazy enough to accept the job of hosting a podcast with me. 

Lauren: That's true.

Matt: Everybody else was like, with you? Hell no. 

Lauren: I know. I tried to say no. 

Matt: No, you didn't. 

Lauren: You talked me into it. 

Matt: No you - you were like, wait, I get to talk and people might listen? Okay, I'm in. Can I mention Taylor Swift every episode? I'm in. 

Lauren: I'm pretty sure you mention her more than I do. 

Matt: No way.

Lauren: I'm going to go back and tally. 

Matt: Go ahead. 

Lauren: Okay. But yeah, if you want to check out that blog post, I'll link it in the show notes. It has five five things that you can keep in mind to make your book look very professional. Definitely check out that blog post if you want to make sure that your book looks professionally done. Did I cover all the - we can go back into consignment now?

[18:37]

Matt: Yeah, we can go back into - 

Lauren: Awesome. 

Matt: - one of the first ways you might be able to get your book into an independent bookstore. 

Lauren: Great. So let's talk about consignment. Again, this is an agreement between the bookstore and the author. The bookstore is going to host your books in the store. They're going to handle the sales for you and then they're going to handle paying you out probably on their set schedule if and when you've made any sales. 

A couple of things to keep in mind with that, if this is something that you're going to do. More often than not, the author is responsible for providing the stock. Primarily, this is because most self-published books are not available for bookstores to order. This is something that we've referenced before, but I want to make sure that we reference it again in here, because it's important. Even books that are available through global distribution, even if you've made your book available through like the Ingram catalog and Baker & Taylor and the other like distributors and to other retailers - for indie bookstores in particular, there are two things that are really important to them in order to help them survive as a business. 

The first one is that they usually want to order books that are returnable, whether that's because they never sell or because they just don't sell as many as they were expecting to. They don't want to eat the cost of unsold books. So they would like, usually they would like to be able to return them to the publisher, to the distributor, to the author, whatever the case is, if they didn't sell.

Another thing that they're going to want to do, regardless of whether or not they are returnable, they want to make sure that they're going to make some kind of profit off of book sales. So if your book is only available through distributors at retail price, then the bookstore is not going to make any money off the sale. So like if your book, if you're pricing your book at $18.99 and the bookstore has to pay out $18.99 for each copy that they order, they're not going to make any money on the sale. So there's no motivation for them to have your book in stock.

Those are two things that are very important to keep in mind. And because it tends to be hard for self-published authors to meet those conditions, they usually ask the author to supply the stock, which then means, of course, that you are going to be responsible for paying out of pocket to order the copies of your book. 

Hopefully if you're self-publishing with a publishing platform like Lulu, you can at least order those at cost and not with the retail price markup. So at least then you will have some room to make some additional money on that, but that's going to be another thing that you want to keep in mind. 

There is probably going to be either - actually it can be and or - there's probably going to be a revenue split with the bookstore and or they are going to charge you rental space, basically. So they're going to charge you to participate in their consignment program. They're basically charging you to have space on their shelves. So they have to have some way to make money off of this.

Indie bookstores, it's hard to keep them afloat. We hear all the time about indie bookstores closing because they just weren't able to stay open. They weren't making the profits that they needed to in order to stay open. There's a lot of times that I want to be really anti-capitalist about things. Supporting indie bookstores is not one of those times. They need the money in order to stay open, stay in business, and stay available to all of us. So they cannot afford to be nice and take your book for free and sell it for no profit. They need to be making money off of it. Sad reality, but still reality. 

Matt: Well, I don't know if it's a sad reality, but it is reality, yes. 

Lauren: I know. 

Matt: Businesses need to make money. 

Lauren: A wild concept. 

[22:07]

Lauren: Some things to keep in mind if you are going to go the consignment route, if you want to give yourself the best chance of actually getting your book accepted. Which, in case that wasn't clear, not all bookstores are just going to be like, oh, you want to be a part of this program and you want us to take your money? Sure, no problem. 

There is usually an application process involved in it. The application process will definitely vary from store to store. So if I were you, I would try to get as much information ahead of time about what they want from the application process, what they're gonna ask you for. Some bookstores will want you to pitch your book to them, in which case you're gonna want your elevator pitch ready to go, you're gonna want your list of comp titles ready to go. 

Some bookstores don't really care what your book is about. They just want to make sure that it meets their like, physical requirements and their standards for their stock and that you can afford to pay them. If it's a genre-specific store or if it's a store, if there's something that like, makes your book specifically relevant for the store, you're going to want to tell them that. So if it's something like, you know, this is a famously local indie bookstore on Long Island and my book is about the history of Long Island South Shore beaches, that's a good reason to have your book carried in that bookstore. 

So you wanna have all that ready to go, but definitely just check ahead of time if you can and find out, okay, what are they looking for? What information do they want from me? At the very least, they are definitely gonna want information about your book's position in the market. So things like your genre, your target audience, target audience age, whatever else you can think of. So definitely make sure that you are prepared to provide that information. 

And then as you're doing all this, just remember that you're relationship building. You don't want to make an enemy out of booksellers. 

Matt: Definitely don't want to make an enemy out of them, no. 

Lauren: For sure. So just find out whatever guidelines they have set in place if they have a specific system for how to submit your book for consideration for the consignment program. The bookstore that I used to work at, you could either get a form online and print it out, or you could come into the bookstore and pick up a form and you had to fill out the whole form and submit it with a copy of your book for the store to review.

If you did not provide a copy of your book, you were automatically rejected. That was like one of our sticking points in general with things is if you can't follow basic instructions, you're out. 

Matt: Well, I think that could be applied to a lot of things. 

Lauren: Oh yeah.  

Matt: Probably should these days. But I want to just reemphasize something you said, which is remember that you are relationship building, so. Not just in this particular step of trying to get your book on consignment in your favorite local indie bookstore. In general, as an author, we've talked about this before, as an author or creator or however you self-identify, it doesn't matter. Everything you're doing is in an effort to build trust. Relationship building is part of everything you're doing. So even in the next one that we're going to talk about, which is author events and other things, everything that you are doing is about building relationships and trust. 

Yeah, as Lauren said, you're building a relationship. Don't burn any bridges with your local booksellers, for sure. Or anybody for that matter, if you don't have to. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: You never know when that relationship will come back to really favor you and something else that you're trying to work on or, you know, maybe somebody that had a really good experience with you at that bookstore six months down the road is talking to a buyer from somewhere else or anything, it doesn't matter, but your name comes out of their mouth for one reason or the other, and before you know it, you've got another opportunity in your lap. You're not just an author or creator. We've said this a thousand times. You're a business and as such, you need to be building trust and relationships with people. 

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. You never know who you're talking to, especially at a place like an indie bookstore, whether it's the booksellers that you're talking to, or the other customers in the store or people that might be attending your event, which we'll talk about in a minute. You never know who you're building relationships with in any given time in those places. And you never know who's going to turn around and be like, oh, hey, I saw you had an event here a while back and I remember being here for it. And it was really great. And I am the co-chair of a local community organization that's looking for a speaker to come for this specific event that we're doing. And your name came to mind. Would you love to do that? 

You know, there's all kinds of things. This is the heart of relationship building. And it's one of the, not few, but it's one of the more limited ones that I can think of that's actually in-person relationship-building and not online social media, online community, whatever network building. This is a fun opportunity to actually have face to face - 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: - time and connections with people. 

[26:35] 

Lauren: Let's talk about author events. One of my favorite things actually, genuinely. But I - 

Matt: If I had a dime for every time you said something was one of your favorite things…

Lauren: I know. But also - 

Matt: But I guess I can attest to author events would be one of your favorite things for sure. What do your bracelets say today?

Lauren: I'm also the one that controls the content of this podcast. Oh, today they say - one of them says, This is the End. 

Matt: Wow. 

Lauren: Mmhmm. Uh, one of them says Modern Idiot. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: And one of them says Year of the Snake. 

Matt: Okay. I see we woke up on the bright and sunny side of bed today.

Lauren: I'm also wearing a shirt that says enemies to lovers and has two skeletons on it. So yes, I did wake up in a mood. I went to see Deadpool yesterday. So like that was - like, I went to like an 8:30 showing last night, so. 

Matt: Don't say anything because I want to see it. 

Lauren: Do you want to yes or no about whether or not it was good? 

Matt: Nope. 

Lauren: At least? Okay. 

Matt: No, I don't. 

Lauren: All right. We'll talk about it later. 

Matt: No, we won't. 

Lauren: Okay. Anyway, yeah, again, I control a lot of the content on here. So of course we're all, we're always going to talk about my favorite things. We're not going to talk about things I don't like. 

Matt: No comment. 

Lauren: Hosting an event at a bookstore is like a very good opportunity to get your book available as stock in a bookstore. Not just for the event itself, but if the event is successful, particularly if the event is successful, there is a pretty good chance that the bookstore will then either offer you a spot in their consignment program without you having to apply and get approved for it. 

They might also just choose to stock your book now that you have copies there, now that you're already there, they might just say, sure, we'll add them to our inventory, keep three to five copies, especially if there is something that you have with it that makes it a little extra special. So if it's a bunch of signed copies or if you had created some collateral for your event specifically, you had some cool bookmarks. Especially if you have like an event exclusive edition, if there's some cool reason for people to want this book… 

Even if it's something like buying copies of your book will give readers free access to your online course for a month. Like there is something that is compelling readers to buy this book, this specific copy of this book. That bookstore might be very happy to turn around and say like, yeah, we would love to add three to five copies to our inventory. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So if you are going to go about hosting an author event at a bookstore, if that's something that you want to try to do, there are definitely several steps to that that you're going to have to keep in mind. Starting with, like Matt was just saying, and like we were just talking about with the consignment opportunities, this is something that you are very carefully building a network. 

You are creating connections, you are forging connections with this bookstore in particular, but also with the other people involved in the process too. So make sure that you approach this as respectfully as possible. Remember that you are asking for a favor and not the other way around. The bookstore doesn't need your event. They don't need it - more often than not - 

Matt: Or your book. 

Lauren: Or your book, for that matter, yeah. More often than not, it winds up being more of a hassle to them than it is a benefit to them. So you want to make it worth their while. And you want to start by being nice about it, being professional about it. You want to make sure that you are aware of any guidelines or requirements ahead of time.

I'll never forget the time that I was hosting an author at the bookstore and despite repeatedly informing her of so, she showed up at the event with no books because she thought the bookstore was providing the books. Yep, just showed up with nothing and then was shocked and dismayed when we didn't have any copies of her book in stock. So you want to make sure that you know what the guidelines are. You want to make sure that you are prepared and ready to go for every step from initially applying for an event to the day of when you show up. 

But the primary thing that's going to help you out with this, the best way for you to maximize your chances of getting accepted for a bookstore is to think of it not as you yourself are having a book signing, but you're hosting a party. 

Matt: Right. 

Lauren: So you're going to approach it like you're approaching a venue. Like, let's say you're having a dinner party, you're approaching a venue, you want to rent a room at a restaurant. 

They're going to ask you questions like, how many people are you expecting? And if your answer is, well, I don't know, I haven't invited them yet. The restaurant's going to say, okay, cool. We can't say, oh, you're only inviting twelve people. No problem. We'll put you in this size room versus, oh, you're inviting fifty people? We'll put you in this size room.

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: So you're going to think of it like you're hosting a party. You're going to want to think of explanations for why you are a good fit for that bookstore, why you want to have a book signing at that bookstore. Something along the lines of… I'm from the area. I have a lot of friends and family here. I have a lot of connections here. If I invite fifty people to come to this event, there's a strong chance that forty to fifty will actually show up. 

You're gonna want some kind of, if there's some kind of connection that your book has, like I said earlier, if your book has some kind of connection to the area, that's a great opportunity to lean on that. Some kind of unique selling point that you can turn around and say, like, I'm gonna include, or I would like to do not just a book signing, but also like a half hour workshop before the book signing that I'm going to invite a whole bunch of people from this community to come to this. And this is something that I normally would charge for, but here I'm going to do it for free and then people can buy a copy of my workbook after it. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Lauren: Whatever it is you want to have, you want to go in there with a pitch. That is why your book is - not even why your book, why your event is going to be beneficial to the bookstore, what you can do to make it a success, and how you're going to sell copies of your book. So that's your other way of getting books in a bookstore. 

[32:08] 

Matt: Those are the two probably - 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: - most prominent and I won't say easiest ways, but probably most likely ways that a self-published or indie published author would get their books into their local indie bookstore. There are obviously some other ways, we won't really get into those, but a lot of self-published authors also have their books in distribution through Ingram and some other sources. 

That doesn’t mean they’re available on the shelves of bookstores, but it does mean that if somebody goes into your local bookstore and says hey, do you have this book by Lauren Vassallo? They say, no, but let me look and see if I can order it for you. If it's in the Ingram catalog or some of the other distribution, then they can order it, but it doesn't mean it'll go on the shelf.

It's important to understand that your book can be available to be bought from an indie bookstore or a bookstore in general if you are in distribution, it just won't be sitting on the shelves as ready inventory. 

Lauren: Right.

Matt: But you still have to follow that same criteria by the way. It won't get accepted in a distribution if it doesn't have those things that we talked about at the top of the episode. So again, you need to have those things in place in your book project, no matter how you want to get into a bookstore. But if that is your goal is to somehow or another get into a bookstore, you've got to have those things done. 

And again, consignment, author events, two of the probably more common and somewhat easier ways to get your book on the shelf of your local indie bookstore. Certainly author events is probably one of the more fun ways than just having it on consignment, or praying to the distribution gods that somebody orders your book and it gets special ordered from the bookstore. But yeah. 

Lauren: On the subject of distribution, if your book is eligible for global distribution, and if it does meet the bookstore's requirements - again, using the store I worked at as an example, our requirements were the book had to be returnable and it had to be available at a 40% discount of the list price. 

Matt: Right.

Lauren: So if you are speaking to a bookstore that has requirements for books being ordered and your book does meet those requirements, you can always ask. You can always say like, hey, I'm a local author. I think it'd be really cool if I had a couple of copies of my book available here. I plan on sending people here to buy it. If any of my friends are like, hey, you know, I don't want to pay shipping prices on this, is there anywhere I can go locally to get it? This is where I would direct them. You can always ask.

They might say, no, your only option is our consignment program. They might say, no, we don't really do that kind of thing. They might say, yeah, sure, we'll order one or two. Do you want to sign them when they come in and we'll have them here? It's worth asking. As long as you do it, again, you’re relationship building, do it respectfully. Follow whatever guidelines they provide. 

Also, this isn't really something you can control. This is pure luck or a lot of manipulation. But - that is, it is something that bookstores pay attention to. If enough customers come in and request a book that is not currently in stock at the store. If enough people come in and ask for it, place an order for it, and then actually pick up that order. Like not just - don't ask ten of your friends to go to a bookstore, order a copy of your book, and then not buy it once it's come in. But if enough people request a copy of a book from a bookstore and purchase it, their in house… Oh my God, what's wrong with me today?

Matt: You want me to start a list? 

Lauren: No, but it can only be stuff for today. 

Matt: You want me to start a list? 

Lauren: Oh God, okay. The person responsible, their in-house book buyer, sure, the person that's responsible for acquiring books for the bookstore might make note of, we've noticed five orders and five purchases of this title in the last two weeks alone, maybe it would be worth it for us to add a couple to our stock.

Matt: I think that's a little bit of a longer shot.

Lauren: Yeah.

Matt: But it's not a bad play. What I would say is don't have all your friends and family go up on the same day. Try to spread it out over a week or two, at least. Cause then at least it just seems like, okay, this must have been a new release and people are coming in looking for it. 

But again, also, don't get your hopes up too high on that because even at the end of the day, if they had ten people over the span of two weeks come in and special order your book and actually come and pick it up and pay for it, there's also the idea that for a smaller author and a smaller bookstore, that is the amount of books they would have sold anyways for that title - 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: - and they might not want to stock anymore. It's a long shot, but it's not a bad one because at least then it gets your name on the tips of the tongues of the people that work there because now they're talking about, man, I just had to order another copy of this book. And so you never know what that could turn into. That could be your foot in the door to actually have an event because, you know, after all said and done, you go up a week or two later and start talking to somebody about having an event, and they go yeah I remember we had to order like ten copies of your book when you released it, so yeah.

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. And if you're listening to this thinking like, oh no that doesn't really, like booksellers aren't - yes they are. We are absolutely remembering, paying attention, noticing book titles. Also, at least one time my friends and I broke the system, accidentally, because we were - we started a book club with a bunch of our coworkers, and we all bought the same book to try to read it. And then the book buyer thought that that book was really popular and ordered like ten more copies of it.

And then we all hated it. And we were all really annoyed that we'd read it for book club. And then we had to go tell her like, oh, hey, sorry, we not only should you not have ordered those ten copies, but we also should probably like, cut it down to one single copy of this book. We didn't mean to mislead you on this one. So it totally happens. 

Matt: Amazing employees. 

Lauren: We were the best, I don’t know what you mean.

Matt: Sounds like it. I mean, and wait, remind me again. This bookstore is or is not around anymore? 

Lauren: It is not around anymore, through no fault of my own. 

Matt: But you're right. You probably were amazing employees that did in no way, shape or form contribute to the degradation of that bookstore's business.

Lauren: Do you know how many books I hand sold? 

Matt: I'm just kidding. I just wanted to see how upset you get about it. 

Lauren: No, it's okay. 

Matt: If anything, you guys probably kept it in business longer. 

Lauren: I'm just saying I love my job. I love working at Lulu, but if I won the lottery and didn't need to rely on an income anymore and could just work for fun, I would be a bookseller.

Matt: I don't think there's any such thing as work for fun, first of all. So everything you said after that, I just ignored. 

Lauren: Okay, fair. 

Matt: But I agree, it's a great way to pass the time if you no longer have to work for a living, hanging out in bookstores and coffee shops. 

Lauren: Have you ever been unemployed for more than like a couple of weeks? 

Matt: No, not since I was a teenager. 

Lauren: I think that you're… I think that you're enough like me that you would last a month before you started to go completely stir crazy. 

Matt: No, no, no, you're wrong. You see, what you're failing to realize is even though I look like a young spring chicken, I'm 50. I'm ready to not work anymore. Yeah, I get where you're going with that, but I am pining for the day that I do not punch a clock somewhere. 

Lauren: But your brain moves at like 200 miles an hour. 

Matt: There are things for that. 

Lauren: You're always thinking ahead about things. 

Matt: You know when my brain stops moving that fast is when I'm sitting on a beach relaxing, reading a book. I don't care about anything else or anybody else for that matter. 

Lauren: That's fair. 

Matt: Yep.

Lauren: I've already started - I'm going on vacation in September, going on a cruise for a week, and I've already started putting my list of books that I'm bringing on the cruise with me. Just like, mapping out my plan. 

Matt: Hope they don't charge you luggage by the pound.

Lauren: The last cruise that I went on I brought twelve books with me. My carry-on bag was literally just books. 

Matt: That's a lot of books for a cruise. 

Lauren: I read all twelve of them. So. 

Matt: Oh my god. 

Lauren: It’s okay. 

Matt: Anything else you want to bore our audience to tears with before we sign off?

Lauren: No, I guess not. 

Matt: Who takes twelve books on a... How long was the cruise? 

Lauren: Seven days. 

Matt: Oh my God. Did you even leave your stateroom? 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Matt: For what? 

Lauren: I sat on the pool deck and read the books. 

Matt: Well, you know what I mean. 

Lauren: Yeah. That's what, that was the whole point of the trip. 

Matt: Twelve romance books in seven days. 

Lauren: They weren't even all romance. 

Matt: Don't lie. 

Lauren: They weren't. 

Matt: What were they? Romance and YA?

Lauren: I think one or two of them was YA. One was a historical fantasy. The rest were romance.

Matt: Oh, man. 

Lauren: It's fine. 

Matt: Okay. 

Lauren: It's fine. 

Matt: Yep. 

Lauren: It's okay. 

Matt: Thanks for joining us today. 

Lauren: Thanks for listening, everyone. It's been great. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, anything that you want to ask about from this episode, anything that you want to talk to us about from another episode, suggest new topics for episodes, just something that you wanna hear more about, less about, anything like that, you can email us at podcast@lulu.com. 

You can leave comments on Lulu's social media. We're always bopping around on there, especially on Instagram. We are still working on getting video set up for this, but there are still episode recordings on YouTube. You can always find them on Lulu's YouTube channel. They're just episode recordings, not episode videos. We're working on it.

Thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.